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"Moonlight" Sonata, Schirmer edition (white cover).

On several occasion it appears "una corda"; only, it never says when to stop. My little dictionary of music notations says that the end of the una corda is indicated by t.c. or tre corde, but this never happens here. Mind that when something is meant to be (in principle) permament it is said at the beginning of the music ("sempre pp e con sordini"), whilst the repeated indication of una corda clearly indicates that it is of punctual use, only it does not tell you how long.

The only clue is that una corda only appears again after pedal and/or crescendo signs, but nothing indicates that I should really keep the una corda pedal down until the crescendo begins, or down during the crescendo and up during the damper action.

Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance

Innominato :

Neither the Schnabel edition nor the Henle indicates use of the una corda, suggesting that Beethoven never indicated its use in this piece, possibly because of the much lighter-toned piano of his day.

Who is the editor of your Schirmer copy, and is it a recent editing, do you know?

Given that the first movement of this piece is constantly marked pp with only the occasional cresc. and decresc., and since Beethoven also indicates "Si deve suonare tutto questo pezzo delicatissimemente..." I would think it might be quite appropriate on a modern piano to use the una corda throughout the first movement.

If you start with the una corda and then release it somewhere in the movement, you are going to change not necessarily the volume but the tonal character of the piece. I think that it's important that you keep the tonal characteristic established at the outset throughout the movement. My thought, then, is: If you are going to use the una corda do it throughout the movement.

Regards,

My understanding is that Beethoven gave explicit instruction that the soft pedal should not be used at all for entire duration of the piece. It should be played as delicately as possible without any dampening. If this is true, any markings of una-corda would deviate from Beethoven's original intent. However, as BruceD indicates, una-corda might make sense for the entire piece on a modern instrument.

In fact, I also understand that the sustain pedal actually is supposed to be held (constantly) for the entire duration of the piece. Of course, on modern instruments, this would make it sound terrible, but that was Beethoven's intention with the instruments of his time.

We do mean the entire first movement (only), don't we?

Cheers!

Oops, good catch! Yea, just the first movement.

My edition of this piece doesn't mention the una corda pedal at all. Where do you get your information from? The piece is cleary marked senza sordini - meaning no dampening at all, and has been pointed out already this is just not feasible on a modern instrument. But Ipersonally I wouldn't use any una corda in this piece, as it requires a rich, but pianissimo, tone.

JohnEB,
I think you're right. I think I got a bit confused. I was confusing it with the idea that Beethoven did not want any type of muting (i.e. NOT to use the una corda pedal in the case of a modern instrument). But by saying "no dampening", i guess it means to use the sustain pedal the entire time. The "no" to "dampening", actually means "yes" to the "sustain pedal". whew!

Thanks to you all.

The sheet music is described as "G. Schirmer, Inc.", but it's not the usual yellow one, it is white.

At the bottom it is also written "distributed by Hal Leonard Corporation". On the back it carries the number HL50266430, I suppose this is the ISBN number.

I could NOT find the name of any "editor", which is very strange given that there are several notes at the foot of every page with "instructions" for the playing.

The dedication "to countess Julia Guicciardi" is printed, and below the inscription of the first movement is written

"sempre pp e con sordini"

("sordina" is how you call the practice pedal in Italy and "sempre" means "always", so it would seem that he wanted some sort of dampening permanently....).

In addition to the inscription just mentioned, there are several "una corda" writings in the text; they always come after crescendo or pedal signatures, but again one is a bit confused.

If "sordini" means "una corda pedal" as it was said at Beethoven's time, methinks it is meant that one should always have it on and release it only by crescendo and pedal parts, and then use it again? This would mean, though, that "sordini" and "una corda" are synonyms?

I am playing it without una corda pedal now, as softly as I can. Frankly, the practice pedal gives the thing a softer, more romantic, smoother tone and allows (me, at least) to better regulate the loudness, but leaving it fixed one renounces to the force on the parts when one is supposed to play louder and more passionately.

I cannot imagine Beethoven wanting the sustain pedal used more or less in permanence, it would all become horribly blurred, inaudible and unplayable.

Despite the "sempre pp..." indication in the first measure of "Moonlight", according to the Henle Edition, that is not exactly the case, since p markings do occur at measure 28 with a return to pp at 42, as well as measures 49 through 59 with a return to pp at 60. But there is no una corda marking to be seen anywhere, as mentioned in an earlier post above.

So then I looked at a heavily edited edition (generally to be avoided!). Sure enough! In the Carl Fischer Edition edited by Maxwell Eckstein, there are una corda indicators at measures 10 and 60. This illustrates once again that it's best to go with urtext editions whenever possible.

On using the una corda pedal, (which, of course on modern pianos mutes two strings rather than one on the treble bridge at least), it's better for pianists to hone their skill at producing dynamic p with their hands only. The soft pedal mostly changes the timbre or color of the sound moreso than the volume. Part of the success of this strategy of attaining softness with the hands will depend on the firmness of the particular piano's action. It's often more difficult to do this with smaller grands having firmer or heavier actions. 7' and 9' instruments have longer key levers which make it considerably easier to play pp without the soft pedal.

I think it's fair to say that most advanced pianists usually use the soft pedal for ppp out of necessity. Many use it for pp when playing smaller grands, unless the action is light enough to facilitate it. A student is always advised to try for softness on their own first, and if it cannot be achieved, only then use the soft pedal.

It's true too that dynamics are relative, not absolute. An ff or pp in one Beethoven sonata might be different from ff or pp in another of his sonatas or a particular piece by Debussy, for example. This is all the more reason why the soft pedal cannot go down as an automatic reflex; rather, its use is situational.

Getting back to the "Moonlight Sonata", first movement--especially where there are p notations present--there would be no justification for applying soft pedal throughout the entire piece. The pedal should at least be lifted for those sections marked p for the sake of contrast, which ought to be able to be produced by the pianist's hands, in my opinion.

My copy is of Schirmer in book form. Sonatas part 1 and 2. It is in book 1. The music was my hs piano teacher's and quite old. Revised and fingered by Dr Bulow and Lebert. copyright 1923

In a footnote (b) A more frequent use of the pedal than is marked by the editor, and limited here to the most essential passages, is allowable, it is not advisable, however to take the original directions 'sempre sesa sordini' (ie without dampers) too literally

I see the markings mentioned.

I tend NOT to use the soft pedal unless I am playing on a piano which I cannot control playing very soft with my finger control. It is the piece that I learned to 'really' control each note and I cannot play it without remembering that lesson with fond remembrance!

HA! I see that Rachfan was posting as I was writing. I think we were saying some of the same things. ;-)

Thanks again.
I am astonished at seeing that "sempre senza sordini" has become "sempre con sordini" in my edition.

I think in future Henle will have me among his customers.

I have an upward, so it will be more difficult to soften the sound and give the romantic, dreaming touch without the pedal. But hey, that's why one practices and I will try to avoid the pedal..

Thanks to all again (with the exception of Schirmer, of course...)

A little off topic, but it's too bad we don't have instruments of Beethoven's day. If so, one could hold down the damper pedal throughout the first movement of Op. 27 #2 (as originally intended) without the harmonies clashing via blurring. A similar case is one of the Op. 33 Bagatelles, which has a long pedal marking that covers several changes in harmony. Hmm, maybe half-pedal can approximate this effect in modern instruments?

On a modern instrument (and all are different, for example the damper pedal on Baldwin has a much different feel from that on a Steinway), we do have pedaling techniques that can assist us--to an extent. For example, it's true that half pedal releases can clear close harmonic changes. Flutter pedal can help clarify some rapid passage work at times. But there are other factors such as the register of the keyboard we are playing in, as well as the dynamic volume to mention a couple. The higher the register, the more "we can get away with" in terms of maintaining clarity. The further we get into the bass, where the the sound becomes more rich and robust, then the harmonic overtones also become more obvious, and things can become more noticeably muddy quite quickly Similarly, we can often maintain surprising clarity in passages where the dynamic is very low even in the bass--but at forte it becomes virtually impossible to do so. Another factor is speed of tone decay. Whereas Baldwin has a faster rate than Steinway, it's possible to "envelop" the music of Debussy and Ravel in the pedal, whereas with Steinway the pianist has to be a bit more judicious, given the longer tone decay for that instrument.

Actually, Beethoven's type of piano does exist today--the fortepiano which features no metal plate, leather-covered hammers, thin-gauge strings, lighter case, etc. Few of these are constructed and are used mostly for period instrument concerts or recitals of Schubert's or Beethoven's music, for instance. Fortepianos don't project well in large auditoriums, so are principally used in small recital venues. Personally, I don't like them. Modern instruments are richer and more powerful.

And when it comes to "authenticity", I think if Beethoven could come back for a visit and try out today's Baldwin SD10E or a Steinway D, he'd have no further use for fortepianos whatsoever! In his lifetime he frequently dreamed of the future development of the piano and fervently wished for it, but in dying young in the 1820s, he never got to glimpse the dream turning into reality unfortunately.

I've had a chance to play on a replica fortepiano based on an instrument of around Beethoven's "middle period." It maybe less powerful than a modern instrument, but it is so much more colourful. There is a much greater difference in colour between the registers -- and add to that the completely different colour that the una corda pedal gives. And the clarity is quite amazing.

I wouldn't give up modern instruments, of course, but I absolutely love fortepianos. They can carry surprisingly well in a modern concert hall -- I heard Robert Levin perform Beethoven's First Concerto live with a fortepiano and it worked just fine in terms of volume. It seems that they are becoming more accepted nowadays too. Ronald Brautigam's ongoing Beethoven fortepiano solo works cycle is recieving rave reviews from almost everyone.

Perhaps you should try a piano with the harmonic pedal installed. I've never heard one live, and I have to admit to not fully understanding the function, but it seems to allow some additional resonance, without the overwhelming sound you'd get by not using any damper at all.

Fascinating -- never heard of it before. Many thanks for that link! The concept of having all the dampers lifted, and then having the dampers for the notes depressed go down sounds fascinating, and it's one I'd like to try out. I flutter pedal often enough, but this sounds like it would produce a different result.