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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,240
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Joined: Apr 2019
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PS Here is a discussion of cancellation errors during a subtraction. Note that the subtraction of two numbers is just the addition of the additive inverse of one number to the other. When the numbers have opposite sign, adding them is subject to the same kind of cancellation error that subtracting two numbers of the same sign is susceptible to. What you are talking about is not "noise". It is a rounding error and it has been studied at the very early stages of computer development. It is in every calculation you do on your PC. Even when you are typing, displaying something on your screen, etc. Even when you play something on your keyboard this error is there. The text you display on the screen has errors in it. Text is a vectorized entity and before it gets rendered it must be digitized. So this stuff you are referring to is everywhere. This is how your concern is addressed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_arithmeticHere is the original wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_error_mitigation#Bounded_floating_pointThat round-off error can already happen to be in your sampled audio as well. If there is an error, which is interpreted as inferior quality of your recording, your original recording already has an embedded error in it. These errors do not add up in a regular way (e.g. e+e=2e or etc... the relationship is different).
Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115 |
This is a funny joke. So if I do 2.01+1.94 on my computer I might get 4.332 and you might get 5.81? So not a joke after all.
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,240
2000 Post Club Member
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2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,240 |
This is a funny joke. So if I do 2.01+1.94 on my computer I might get 4.332 and you might get 5.81? So not a joke after all. Let's be clear about this. What you were saying was about noise. So once you do 1+1 you get 1.0001 and the other time you'd get 0.9999. That's never going to happen. Do you see where the joke is?
Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115 |
I never said anything about 1+1.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,711
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,711 |
I never said anything about 1+1. A while ago you said it was your last post on the matter, This will be my last post to the thread. , so everything you've written after that must just be noise 😉😉😁😁😁
Last edited by Doug M.; 11/10/22 07:07 PM.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
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Posts: 5,115 |
Yes. Lots of noise in the thread.
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Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 29
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 29 |
There seems to be two camps in this conversation.
1. Those who have a keyboard that has inbuilt USB audio and are delighted with the simplicity and convenience of single cord connection for VST's and digital audio in, and
2. Those without inbuilt USB audio who are desperately trying to justify why its not needed.
Human nature at its best! I think you could split #2 into two subcategories: 2a. Those who don't play audio from their computer through their keyboard at all. 2b. Those who have an external DAC (or audio interface) and monitors that blow away the built-in sound on the keyboard and thus have no need for USB audio support. I think #1 is probably the smallest group of the three. Just conjecture here, but I seriously doubt the first group is the smallest. Pretty sure 2b would be given the amount of setup required.
Last edited by Pachi; 11/20/22 02:56 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 5,115 |
I think 2b is more common because the majority of people using VSTs are using midi controllers that have no audio capabilities of any kind. And most digital keyboards one might use as a midi controller lack the ability to function as an external soundcard/DAC for a computer. What percentage of midi controllers in use are even standalone DP's, much less ones with the functionality in question?
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 909
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 909 |
There seems to be two camps in this conversation.
1. Those who have a keyboard that has inbuilt USB audio and are delighted with the simplicity and convenience of single cord connection for VST's and digital audio in, and
2. Those without inbuilt USB audio who are desperately trying to justify why its not needed.
Human nature at its best! I think you could split #2 into two subcategories: 2a. Those who don't play audio from their computer through their keyboard at all. 2b. Those who have an external DAC (or audio interface) and monitors that blow away the built-in sound on the keyboard and thus have no need for USB audio support. I think #1 is probably the smallest group of the three. Just conjecture here, but I seriously doubt the first group is the smallest. Pretty sure 2b would be given the amount of setup required. I believe the first group is the smallest because most people aren't using a computer with their piano at all. Of those that do, most don't have a piano with USB audio support. Of those that do, most don't understand the idea of using their piano as their audio interface or don't want to because they listen to other things besides their piano on their computer (or because they're already a member of group 2b). Hooking up an audio interface, speakers, and/or headphones to a computer, on the other hand, is a widespread and time-tested practice.
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,991
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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*smooths hair back after being windswept by the following 8 pages* So, the answer is no. 
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