Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards VSL Steinway Concert D-274 - Review/Demos

Hey all,

After recently buying my first premium digital piano (Yamaha CLP-785), I took the plunge and bought my first serious VST: The Steinway Concert D-274 by Vienna Symphonic Library.

I knew that for my style of music, classical - with it’s big dynamic variations, I needed the most dynamic layers I could get: VSL is almost unsurpassed in this regard. I also loved the sound of their demos: they capture the feel of classical stage performances & classical recordings well.

So slowly, and with great trepidation, I took out my credit and dropped the big ones on this rather expensive library; I bought the Standard version first, just in case. Well, I fell in love immediately. Audibly gasped upon playing it! For the first time, I felt a digital piano could truly capture the feeling of an acoustic. The playability was stunning, the sound was great. Of course, some tweaks were necessary to customize it, as is the case with all VSTs, but it was really stunning.

Here are some demo recordings I made, using my settings:
(***please don’t just my demos harshly, LOL! I literally just sat down and played a few pieces to give you an idea. These are NOT performance-ready or performance level lol)

Franz Liszt, No. 3 Paysage, Études d'exécution transcendante, S. 139

Listen on SoundCloud

Frédéric Chopin, Prelude, Op. 28, No. 4

Listen on SoundCloud

Johann Sebastian Bach, Aria, Goldberg Variations, BMV 988

Listen on SoundCloud

Franz Liszt, Sonetto 104 Del Petrarca, Années de pèlerinage - Deuxième année: Italie, S. 161

Listen on SoundCloud


FULL REVIEW:
Some of this may be repetitive, especially considering this forum is well-versed on VSTs. So skip what you find repetitive, and hopefully, there may be something in here that may be beneficial for the person who is looking to buy this software or the current user who is interested in new customizations.

• They selected an extremely beautiful instrument. It has that everything that Steinway is known for. The evolving tonal range: the shimmer & sparkle on top off and within the notes, the perfectly cascading harmonics, the massive tonal range from soft and round, to twangy, to glass like, to bell like, to metallic. And it has that HUGE evolving dynamic range Steinways possess from muted pianossismos that are whisper quiet and lack any percussive element giving the impression that the note just arrives to aggressively percussive, metallic, mechanical fortissimos that remain musical. Companies often say their VST will sound like a particular piano, but if you’re familiar with the actual brand, especially when you’re talking about very distinctive brands like Steinway, Bosendorfer, or Yamaha, sometimes you can be disappointed by the lack of distinctive sonic elements. This has it! Vienna Symphonic Library seems specifically aimed at capturing the classical experience, moreso than some of the other VST companies. The inclusion of such a wide level of velocity layers (100+) gives you an extremely complete dynamic and tonal variation of each note; something you really need for classical. The recording process being done on a proper orchestral stage offers the ambience and feel of a concert hall. The Decca Tree set up is common to orchestral/concerto/solo piano recordings, so, again, that feel. Vienna Symphonic Library isn’t afraid to push the instrument in a way that other VST companies seem to avoid, which is a good thing, because some music requires those violent Horowitzian fortissimos, and this really allows you to get it.
• The Standard Version is more than acceptable and offers playability, authenticity, customizations, and aural experience that was breathtaking. While the Full version offers ultimate authenticity, you could definitely rely on the Standard version until you’re ready to upgrade. And if you feel you don’t need to upgrade, you’d still be great. I like that VSL doesn’t give you bad microphones for the Standard and save the good ones for the Full version, as some libraries do. They give you great mics for the Standard, and the Full version just adds quality to those mics. The Condenser Mic gives you a very clear & percussive sound, providing you with that attack that some libraries lack. The two Decca Tree mics are a standard of classical recordings, both live and studio, and again, give that classic sound. The Mid 1 mic offers a wider sound stage while including some of the trademark Steinway sparkle missing from the Condenser mic. The Room Mic offers that stage/concert hall ambience that really sets this collection apart from many of the other ones I’ve seen. I preferred the Concert preset, but ultimately, I used a mix of Room Mic, Condenser, and Mid 1 the most.
• The Full Version adds even more authenticity and higher level surround qualities. The Ribbon and Tube microphones contain all the FULL Steinway shimmer, harmonics, & bell like sparkle that are a bit lost in the Condenser mic, which focuses on the twangy, percussive, and central elements of a note’s tone. They also add a low-range depth that the Condenser mic lacks, bringing some real bass to the piano that is immediately noticeable. I prefer the Tube because it highlights the shimmer & sparkle but maintains the percussive attack. Mic 2 adds a wider sounder stage and fills in some of what’s missing from both the Ribbon, Tube, and Condenser. Main Surround, High Stereo, & High Surround fill in the stage ambience and concert hall fullness with an extreme clarity, precision, & detail that the very blended Room Mic lacks, and a wider soundstage. I use Condenser, Tube, Main, & Main C. If I want a “concert stage” feel, I add Surround and High Stereo. If I want dryer, especially for baroque/rococo/early classical music, I remove the Tube mic.
• I remove all the EQ presents. Gives the most honest and natural sound of the piano.
• I remove all Delay. I find that it adds messiness to the mix that I don’t like.
• I remove all Reverb, from the samples and the main reverb. The stage this piano was recorded on is already huge enough and has enough ambience and reverb for me. Anything more makes the sound more messy. There’s already so much natural reverb, that making this mix drier is better.
• I edited the Velocity Layer Curve, which is pretty much the same thing you have to do with any VST. I will say that this one was much easier to adjust. An hour of really sitting with it and getting it to the point that I really felt I was playing a true acoustic, and it was fine. Saved that preset, and now load it by default with my saved customizations.
• I don’t use the Body or Sympathetic Resonance. They’re both modeling effects and the faux nature of them just adds messiness to the sound. There’s enough of an element of sympathetic resonance and body resonance already captured in the samples to an extent. It could be more natural, and I’ve seen it better done in some other libraries.
• I brought the Half Pedal to 50% so it registered better. Also bought the pedal noise down to -15. It’s done exceptionally well and adds great authenticity, but it’s too loud at default.
• Key release noise is well done here. I have it a 0, but may take it down a bit lower. It’s mostly only noticeable in pieces or passages of pieces with limited or no pedaling.
• Also love that you can save your customizations very easily. No fiddling trying to recapture that perfect customization. Just save it, and load it up when you start. Loads easily and adjusts quickly.

This library also works very well on my computer. I run four mics at most, sometimes five. I have a i5-1135 computer with 2.40 GHz and 16 GB ram. I don’t get any noticeable issues unless I try to run move than five mics, and even then only if I play something extremely complex, primarily with lots of pedal, repeated notes, and chords. I was able to run all the mics and play really simple pieces, but I don’t think there’s ever really a need to run all the mics.

I’d like to try the VSL Bosendorfers next, but I’ll have to save up my little coins before, because these libraries are not cheap. I was expecting to prefer the Bosendorfers and buy one of those first, since I was partial to those, and my teacher owned one, but after listening to their demos and youtube demos, I realized I wanted the Steinway sound more. Perhaps because it’s more often used by concert pianists in their performances and recording, so that sound is almost hardwired into the ear, when associating a piano sound with classical music. I’m also interested in the Imperfect Fazioli and Production Voices Concert Grand because of the extreme quality/layers in the former and the extreme quality in the latter. Both require Kontakt, and I’ll have to save up for those purchases too, lol. Tempted to try the Embertone Walker, and maybe that will be the next one.

Hope this helps someone who is interested in buying it, or perhaps my customization choices might offer a new sonic experience to someone who already has it. Would love to hear what customizations or edits those of you who own it use! Thanks for checking it out.

Amazing write up! It’s on my list to consider as well if my system can handle a demo license!

There's one major thing that the VSL Synchron Pianos lack, in my opinion, and that is, no una corda samples, not even a simulation. I'll hold a grudge against them as long as they continue to not do it...

That aside, wonderful playing and review. I think your words captured everything that's good about this library. The sound is so iconic for classical recordings, which is so true!!!

David, David, David...

Remember that VSL told you on their forum that una corda is a "rather rarely-used option".

And a later post says that all one need do is "Use the Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 Standalone as host and insert an EQ to shape the una corda sound. Then set automation up to control the EQ's bypass via the soft pedal."

Sigh...

Yes, it's too bad that what's probably the most expensive set of samples available has this deficiency.

But I think that student/hobby solo players are not their target market. They're mostly selling to people who buy orchestral libraries for commercial scoring... and for that purpose una corda IS probably "rarely used".

Hello,

@Taushi, Thank you for a great and well written impression of your new Steinway!

Because your quality standards are obviously high and your taste and needs are well specified, I'd suggest you're already done purchasing VSTi pianos.

Speaking from experience, in any case *do not* purchase instrument libraries that cannot be tried beforehand and/or cannot be returned for a refund after purchase (which rather unfortunately is most often the case when it comes to pianos). I've been lucky with two so far (VI Labs Modern U and recently Ravenscroft 275 -- the latter not being wholly perfect but certainly enjoyable and usable), but deeply disappointed with the quality of other ones. Those other ones do include titles from Production Voices (in my case luckily light/cheaper versions); those were so far off the mark that it was just money lost and files deleted. As was the case with several other companies.

You may already know this, but keep in mind that the virtual piano phenomenon originates as sample libraries aimed at programming production tracks in studios, much less with the serious solo player (who actually *plays* the piano) in mind. In my experience, much that is offered by various companies may be usable in the studio, but disappoints literally within seconds (to critical fingers and ears such as yours or mine) when used as a 'real' piano. There is definitely not much of a relationship between how great a library may appear on YouTube and recordings, and the crash and burn that may occur regardless as soon as the virtual instrument is under your own fingers.

In particular because you mention having to save up money (like most of us) to be able to do a next buy (next being the dangerous word here, because after next, it reiterates to... next...), I suggest to be super cautious with your purchase decisions.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

HZ

@Taushi: this is probably the best sound I have ever heard from a virtual instrument. The Années de pèlerinage recording sounded equivalent to commercial recordings of the same. Quite outstanding (probably not merely because of the VSL but also because you really made good use of the full dynamic range).

Great playing, by the way!

Hi,
Great selection. Gives us a good feel for the VST.

Great review.

Makes me want to spend more money...:-(

Ron

wise words here. I would also second this, as to not end up like me (buying too many VSTs that are not pleased with, cycle continues buying more and more...)

@Taushi, curious what your velocity curve looks like? I actually find the Steinway to be among the trickiest libraries to adjust I have, almost everything else plays pretty perfectly with minimal adjustment on my keyboard

Thank you! Hope you can and that you enjoy it! I just found out they do demos, and I’m going to try to demo one of the Bosendorfers too!


It would definitely be wonderful if they added Una Corda. I will say that they do such an amazing job with the ppp/pp samples, that it can approximate una corda to an extent. And their approximation of una corda (accomplished with EQ-ing or lowering the velocity levels, I’m not sure) is effective & convincing. So very quiet, it feels like una corda. But, of course, the lack of that specific tone may be noticeable in comparison to the real thing.

Sadly, I haven’t seen a Steinway VST on the market that has the same level of playability/velocity layers and also una corda. I tend to like at least 30+ velocity layers. I think Embertone is an option. Perhaps Production Voices. Would be interested in learning about some.


Thank you very much! And thanks for this piece of wisdom. It’s something I definitely have to remind myself of. I’m still fairly new to the world of VSTs and it’s always amazing seeing & hearing about the new ones & thinking of how to save up to get them, lol.

I definitely agree with you that finding the sampler for the serious solo player is hard, as many simply lack the pliability and dynamic/tonal range.

I like the VI Labs Modern U sound. So well sampled. Sad to hear the Production Voices didn’t hit the mark for you. I was interested in their Concert Grand, but may have to review that. While I acknowledge the clarity and quality of the samples is stunning, the dynamic range in the samples didn’t seem as wide. Thanks for sharing that.


Agreed. Their sound is stunning. I felt the same when hearing the demos on their website & Youtube, and was glad to find out that the VST actually matches the demos!

And thanks so much!


Thank you! And LOL! VSL is definitely making me want to try and their pianos now.

This is the velocity curve I use:



I’ve slightly lowered everything under 96. I have a bit of a “dip” between velocity layers 0 and 85 to give more access to the lower velocity layers and create a more normal playing experience. I’ve noticed I have to lower that range with every VST I’ve used as they all seem to be way too loud in the mp/mf range, and lean in to making f/ff super easily accessible in a way that would be unnatural on an acoustic.

***I also boosted velocity layers 85-112, but this may not be necessary for everyone. For some reason the midi velocity signal my piano sends to the VST tops out around 107. Even if I Karate chop my piano or strike the keys as hard as I feel comfortable doing, the midi signal sent doesn’t go beyond 107. Like a lot of digital pianos, mine has it’s own built in touch sensitivity and touch curve. I disable those & even boosted the touch sensitivity. Still tops out at 107. So to get fortississimo/fortissississimo sounds at all and with the same force I’d normally use on an actual acoustic, I boosted 85-112 until it felt natural. This may be a Yamaha thing, or even something specific to this series/this model/my piano/my piano’s settings. So it may not be necessary for everyone and I’d even caution against the boost in this area if your piano sends signals 100-127 just fine.

@Taushi:
Fantastic playing, btw. what a great selection too. Looks like my dream list to be able to play one day

off topic from the VST, but let me ask you what would you say the difficulty level is of that Liszt Paysage Etude#3, compared to the Chopin Prelude #4 and Bach Aria?
I absolutely love that Paysage etude so much, and am always curious to hear opinions on its difficulty

Thank you so much!

Compared to the Prelude and the Bach Aria, the Liszt Etude is significantly more difficult, but not impossible or overwhelming. From a technical point of view, it’s got a lot that would normally be challenging: long descending patterns of thirds & double note configurations, large repeated chords, melodies within chords, a cross-hand section, and opposing rhythms in the left & right hand. Luckily, though, the tempo is very slow, Poco Adagio - 58, so these are manageable.

Thus, the main issue becomes interpretation. One has to bring out the octave melody in the right hand that follows a strict rhythm while maintaining the left hand accompaniment that moves in opposing rhythmic bursts of three, separated by a beat, with some bursts of two and four. The double notes & chords have to be primarily legato. There’s also sections where melodies or counter melodies appear within the double notes or chords that have to be brought out. Pedaling is another of the main difficulties, because the descending thirds, double notes, and chords are all in the same area, and without proper pedaling, sound can get muddy & messy. Fingering is important to figure out.

Like most of Liszt’s work, despite it’s unique construction, it’s very pianistic. And I think it’s very manageable.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being Gaspard de la Nuit/Rach 3/Liszt fantasies/Prokofiev 3 and 1 being Chopsticks…I’d rate it a 6.5, whereas I’d rate Goldberg Aria a 4 and the Chopin a 3.

thank you so much. again, wonderful playing.

Thank you @Taushi very much for the comprehensive and detailed review! I like the sound in your recordings.

Would you please share the final configuration you used in those videos? Especially what microphones are used (apparently some combination of Room Mix/Condenser/Mid 1 from telling your previous messages) and how they are mixed with certain levels? It would be even greater if you can share the preset file, but simply showing the screenshot of mixer/player would also be appreciated.

Thanks for sharing taushi! Your velocity curve is actually pretty similar to my own, except I use with less reduction at lower velocities since I'm using my keyboard's "heavy" setting. Curious to see what you end up with if you try any of the other VSLs, most of the other ones I feel don't need as much or any adjustment.

No problem, and thank you for the very kind words!

uote=napilopez]Thanks for sharing taushi! Your velocity curve is actually pretty similar to my own, except I use with less reduction at lower velocities since I'm using my keyboard's "heavy" setting. Curious to see what you end up with if you try any of the other VSLs, most of the other ones I feel don't need as much or any adjustment.[/quote]

I’m going to try to see if I can get a demo for the Bosendorfer soon. I’m really curious about the VS280. So I think that’ll be my next VSL instrument.

I’m not sure how to share the preset file; still new to this software.

However, here are some screenshots of the settings I use:







This is the sound I used for all the recordings posted here, EXCEPT the Goldberg Variations. I removed the Tube mic, because I like the drier/twangier sound for baroque music. Thus far, though, these are the settings I use for everything else, including the other three recordings here.

So explain why are you having no Sympathetic Resonance? As you have "Sympathetic" set to "minus infinity decibels" which means it's off.

Do you think that sounds realistic, like a real piano???

I don’t like what the effect does to the sound. Both the Sympathetic Resonance and Body Resonance, to my understanding, are mere software modeling effects, that alter the sound to emulate those natural elements of the physical instrument.

But, with such incredibly detailed & high quality samples, and when you have a multiple microphone set-up recording the piano from nearly every perspective, you really don’t need the effect because it’s already there in the recording. There is already a bit of sympathetic resonance in the actual sample, simply because when you press a key on the piano and record it, you’re also picking up the other strings in the background as they sympathetically vibrate. There’s already a bit of body resonance in the actual sample, simply because the microphones are all around & close to/inside the piano, and are therefore picking up the natural resonance of the instrument itself.

In lesser quality samples, you may not get all those extra frequencies and sonic elements, which is why some brands add it to provide what the samples lack. But here, with this extreme precision, it’s kinda there by default.

So when you have a faux modeling effect mimicking sympathetic resonance, by, perhaps signaling other samples in the background, it almost feels like too much. The sound blossoms and fills out in a way that feels unrealistic. Same with the Body Resonance effect, which to me, doesn’t do anything but boost lower, more muffled frequencies. It just makes the sound messy.

The microphones they use are really high quality mics that capture the sound with great authenticity. I feel like all the additions add something that I don’t need. I just want the most honest, realistic, authentic piano sound. And for that effect, silencing all the additional processing and effects creates the most realistic piano sound.