Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Comparison CA97, CA98, CS11, CLP-685, N1UX, N1, N2, N3, N3X

I put all the models on the title so that this comparison will show up in a title search.

I had been planning to purchase an acoustic upright for between 5-10K USD, and had decided to go with a used Yamaha U3, as they have a good action, sounds nice, and plenty of inventory everywhere, which means different dealers can't really mark them up very much.

And then I looked at digitals in the same price range, just to see how they compare to the U3.

One Kawai store had CA97, CA98, and CS11 all next to each other against a concrete wall, which is perfect for comparison. The actions were good imitations of grand actions. Responsive, sensitive, light. The sound of CA98 was better than CA97. Not a whole lot better, but incrementally better, which is expected. What surprised me was that I preferred CS11's sound the best. I suspected this was due to the placement of top speakers being higher, closer to my ears, so I tried an experiment. I recorded the same passage on all 3 pianos, and listen to them from a few feet away. From a distance, they all sounded good, CA97 and CS11 sounding identical, with CA98 being slightly better. But sitting down in front of the piano, CS11 just felt more natural and open.

With the Yamahas, I visited two different stores, which allowed me to try the pianos in different room placements. I will detail it below.

At the Yamaha store, I tried the CLP-685, placed against a wall. The action was responsive. Different from Kawai and all the other Yamahas below, but a good imitation of a grand action. Maybe a little "stiffer" than other "grand-type" actions. The sound was good, enjoyable, but less "live" than CS11, more like coming from speakers, most noticeable when played loudly. What I mean here is that volume set to normal acoustic upright volume, and playing fff. On an acoustic upright, I can never get a satisfying fff, and I think CLP's and CA's try to mimic a grand's larger dynamic range but then run into their speakers' limitations.

The N1UX was a joy. The action was realistic! It responded well, I would say better than an acoustic U3, lighter and faster somehow. The sound was good and satisfying. It really felt like I could forget about the action and play. I think it is a tossup between an N1UX's upright action and imitation-grand actions of CLP's, and CA's. They overlap with each other in both action and sound, so I think it's matter of personal preference among them.

Compared to the used acoustic U3, there seems to be a stiff competition for the $5K piano market. The digitals offer grand-like feel, and grand-emulating sound to varying degrees. I think if I was a beginning piano student, any of the acoustic or digital options would be awesome.

On to the hybrids. The N2: One chord, and my eyes got wide and mouth dropped. It was the first time I felt I heard strings instead of speakers. And as I banged on the keys louder, the illusion continued, unlike the instruments above. I spent a long time playing the N2, and it was very satisfying. I felt at that moment this was a better piano than the acoustic U3. Action is clearly superior. The sound was clearly superior. ppp and fff were effortless, I can forget myself and make the piano sing. The TPS system did add to the realism, although it was too much at setting 3. I preferred the default of 2. The previously noted "pressing the sustain pedal while holding a cord makes volume louder" effect was very evident, but I only noticed it when I deliberately triggered it.

I played the N2s in two different stores, one placed against the wall and the other placed in the middle of the room. Both times the illusion of playing a real piano was complete. Very satisfying, and I would be happy to purchase one.

Compared to the N2, N1 was like a little brother. Same action, but worse sound system. It sounded good, but not as realistic as the N2.

And then there is the N3X. At first, it felt much like the N2, but louder. More presence. More detail. More realistic sound from the four speakers in front of me. The illusion was so strong that I would strike for example the C-3 note, and my eyes would follow the sound to where the string would have been. The longer I played it, the more I appreciated additional realism. The sustain pedal simulation was great, including the different resistance you feel as you press down, and the "thunk" when you let it drop. After that, the simply sprung N2 sustain pedal felt lifeless, sloppy, and unsatisfying. One of the N3X was in the middle of the show room, and it projected like a grand piano. The other was placed up against a corner, and it sounded like a grand in a corner, with sound reflecting back at you from the walls, not in a good way. N3X really behaves like a proper grand piano. N3 was very much like the N3X. The sound was different, not necessarily better or worse. There was a used Yamaha C3 acoustic grand a few feet away, and playing it immediately after the N3X, it felt very similar in action and tone. What was obviously different was the fact that the acoustic was not perfectly tuned. The sticker on the C3 said $23K USD.

Final thoughts. I was very pleased at the array of piano "alternatives" available at this price range (<10K). They compete well with the acoustic uprights in action, sound, and satisfaction. There is a nice progression of features and better sound as you move up in price.

I was very impressed at what I found at 10K+ price range. At this price, the digitals are competing with acoustic short/baby grands, so it makes sense they have better actions than the cheaper models. In my opinion the AvantGrand N2s are way better value than similarly priced used baby grands because it sounds nicer (richer lower notes) than any baby grand.

If I had the space for a 6 feet Yahama C3 (or its peers), I would like to spend $20K+ and buy a used one. Sadly I do not have the space. The N3X gives me an opportunity to play an instrument I would not be able to enjoy at any cost. For my initial goal of getting a U3, I think N2 sounds and feels better. Currently I am debating between the N3X or N2, mostly over if the more realistic pedal and sound justify the additional cost and space. My choice would have been much simpler if N2X model was available with the realistic sustain pedal, but such a thing does not (yet) exist.

Epic first post. Thanks for taking us along with you during your shopping!

Great comparison - thanks for sharing your thoughts.


Absolutely. After I tried N2 and N3 in the local Yamaha dealership, I tried C1/C3 and a used C7 and new S7X. I found that only the new C7 and S7X were better in sound and overall experience than N2/N3.

Osho

redfish1901 -

Sounds like you have some good dealers in your area - may I ask where you're located?

Hello redfish1901,

Many thanks for your comments on the pianos that you have tested.

Did you check also the sound through headphones for any of the pianos that you tested?

I believe there is still one piano left for you to test, the Kawai Novus NV10, before you make a final decision.
If you have the occasion to test this Kawai Novus NV10, I would appreciate if you would not mind writing your impressions about it and especially compare it to the experience that you had with the AvantGrand N2 and N3X.

Thanks for your feedback on this matter if you happen to have the occasion of testing in the coming weeks (possibly the coming months!) the Kawai Novus NV10.

Kind Regards
MikePianoLover.

I’m going for n3x, and was quoted USD 15k plus tax by dealer.
Going through the price paid thread, I can’t find any price info for n3x, but a lot people paid 10k - 12k for n3.
I’m not sure if the 4k difference is reasonable for the small upgrade.

Fyi 14.9k was what I was quoted for the n3x as well recently.

I think the main question is whether you can still find a new n3 too buy at this point

A quote is just an offer. The dealer's offer.

What's your offer? I'm keen to know.

That quote is the negotiated price 1k down from the listing.

From what I've seen of the AG market, that's not a bad price at all, to the point where I don't think there would be too much additional flexibility. If you're trying to get them lower and start running into a wall, you can try negotiating on value adds, like free delivery, an upgraded bench, etc.

Good point. I think the market won't sustain the N3X price any higher than the N3 price. I don't think it's worth more. It fills exactly the same market niche as the N3.
If I were prepared to buy the N3X I'd offer around $12000.

I did not test with headphones as I was trying to compare them directly with an acoustic U3. In a way, my comparison was less test of the sound engine but more of the speaker system (physics rather than software). I think a headphone comparison would have been exclusively software focused, which I expect the latest to sound better than the oldest.

I wish my Kawai dealer had a Novus, but they did not. Still, my expectation is that it will sound similar to the Yamaha N1, based on the number and type of speakers it has, even with a newer sound engine. Accordingly I expect it to sound better than both N1 or N2 using headphones.

I did much the same comparison today. You weren't in Atlanta were you? I completely agree about the N2. I was very pleasantly surprised. I just wish it wasn't so expensive! I'm fairly certain my digital piano money is about to go to an MP11SE.

Interesting comparison. I did something similar years ago when there were fewer choices, and ended up with the AG N3. It's given me years of flawless pleasure. No regrets. And, when the time comes, resale value will be pretty good.

Sad thing about resale value of used digital is that they are very poor. The dealer that had N3 and N3X side by side now has the N3 below 9,000USD.

I bought mine new 6? 7? years ago for $11K. So not so bad. After all, I've played my brains out on it for many years.

Rumor in German musik stores, based on upcomming Musik Messe..

There will be an Avantgrande N2S
And N2 update ..
Including an advanced version of the csp 170 smart ipad app
More on par in functionallity with the also expected cvp 809..
Next to Yamaha, there would also be boesendorf samples..

Not to be picky, but did you mean an N2X?

I don’t read about an hypothetical N1X... was the question about only the N2 ? (And then the answer focused on it) ?

No N2S. With the S comming from Smart i suppose... as it would have the smart parts of the c(S)p series...
New concept based on the Avantgrand hybrid build...