Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Improve your piano playing while you sleep

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http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/64259-improve-your-piano-playing-while-you-sleep

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Back in the days before family and children I had a hammock strung from one living room wall to another. I would let Chopin etudes and Bach play repeatedly as I slept. I really can't say if it helped my learning process... it probably did, since i could so easily identify a wrong note if i played it.

It sure was a nice way to drift off to sleep. I still listen in my sleep with my mp3 player.

Couldn't imagine sleeping with music playing. Most research suggest that for proper sleep we need as silent a place as possible.
Furthermore, how substantial is the increase in learning? Some numbers on how many less mistakes the participants made would be a nice addition to the article.

Saw this post and tried it last night. I had the Liszt liebestraum no. 3 on a loop at a relatively low volume throughout the night. It didn't disturb my sleep at all throughout the night. When I woke up an heard it playing it seemed, I don't know, sharper? I feel like I have a better understanding of the piece. I wonder if listening to a variety of recordings would be more beneficial?

I'm with Yayeh, I couldn't imagine having music for the entire night while sleeping.

I could imagine having 30 minutes of music to help me drift off to sleep but I would think our brains evolved to have silence as the default mode, then any noise might wake us up and protect us from being a predator's snack.

I think any claimed benefit will be extremely subjective and unverifiable.

It is NOT going to improve anyone's ability to play this, that, or the other. Sleep will, of course, make things seem "sharper" and gosh... who would have thunk... clearer, because you just gave your brain a rest. Now, if they can find a way for one to improve upon one's technique whilst sleeping...

I hate these bits of "scientific" research, where scientists test out a field that otherwise they know nothing about, take one tiny aspect, have it approached in some narrow way, and then present their "conclusions". I love (not) this gem:

If you practise something mindfully, before you sleep, and then sleep, then your mind does process it. Lots of musicians and people in other fields have told of their experiences, without it having the stamp of scientific research. I would not want somebody to play music in a loop while I sleep, or instruct me to imagine key presses, because this would interfere from much bigger and better learning that can happen. Besides, sleep is a timed restorative process that is built into us for a reason - I wouldn't want to muck with it.

I've experienced the effects of practicing and then sleeping more than once. The most memorable experience had to do with languages (hence: their statement about languages is totally out to lunch) - and a potato. I was studying a foreign language and could not remember the name of a potato. I gave up on the potato and went to bed. In the morning I was half awake when I saw this gigantic field potato, dirt still clinging to it and glistening in the sun, and this strong voice was intoning (in that language), "POTATO!!!". All day long, whenever I paused to do dishes or eat lunch, there it was: the glistening potato and the voice, "POTATO!!!". I never forgot the word again.

An experience in music which others have related too: You work on something and you can't quite get it, or it's a relative struggle. You sleep. After sleeping, the next time you practice, it has become relatively easy. You can remember that it was hard, and can't quite imagine why it had been hard before.

You'd think that the researchers had taken care of the sleep-improvement effect. It's been proven a gazillion times that sleeping improves upon whatever you've been practicing that day (and previous days)--some researchers believe that the brain is reprocessing the entire day, throws away useless data and reruns useful events. So when you wake up you've experienced the same thing over an over, making you more apt at what you've practiced.

But both groups in the study got a 90 minute nap, so you'd think sleep-wise the groups would be even. But there are so many invidual factors to consider.

Evolutionary-wise, this wouldn't make a lot of sense.

The critique written so far in this thread doesn't respect the exact method and findings of the study. Basically, they had 2 groups of people learning a melody. Both had a 90 minute nap. But only one of them had the tune they learned previously played to them in sleep, the other a different tune. And the first group then did less mistakes afterwards reproducing the tune. There's nothing vague like a 'sharper image' or funky learning interpretations here. Of course, it's just a small study, and maybe it can't even reproduced. That's how science works, you have to find evidence again and again. But this study is not some scientists experimenting with something they don't know anything about and making stupid claims.

People need to read a little more carefully...

What this research is about is something called "memory consolidation" - a process that occurs during sleep where the brain processes the day's information. Some things are "cemented" in long-term memory, other things are discarded. It's the brain's way of keeping house.

The research at Northwestern suggests that external stimuli can have a small effect on memory consolidation.

The big problem with the article StudioJoe posted is the title. The title "Improve your piano playing while you sleep" is complete garbage. Your piano playing is not going to improve while you sleep. You will, however, assimilate and become more secure in what you've practiced while you sleep.

If anything, sleep research reinforces the idea that *daily practice* is extremely important. Since the brain processes information while you're asleep, then you waste a sleep cycle if you don't practice that day.

Also important is this line in the article:

"Unfortunately, the research doesn't mean that it's possible to learn, say, a foreign language while asleep."

This stresses the idea that we do not learn anything new. The process relies on, as the article says, "reactivating existing memories."

So, if you haven't practiced the B section of a piece, you're not going to get any better at it by listening to it while you're asleep. And if your technique is faulty, then you'll be recalling and reinforcing the memory of the faulty technique.

The research is fascinating, but like most scientific research, it's rarely as easy to understand as the media and others would have us believe. (Nor is this particular line of research groundbreaking - memory consolidation in music has been a topic of study for the last several years; the Northwestern study simply reinforces the idea and explores the idea of external stimuli.)

Honestly I can't afford to have anything interfere with my lack of sleep. I can't even clean to good music because I want to listen to it and not be disturbed.

Wonder how that worked for all the Suzuki learners....going to sleep with music?

rada

Chronic insomniac here.

Forget the piano playing. What I need is improved sleep.

Slightly OT, but does anyone find it uncomfortable to listen to music while half-asleep? I don't mean whether or not it's annoying or hard to sleep to, but more in the sense of causing mental instability. It's a completely different feeling from listening while awake. Being half-asleep somehow enhances the effects I think. It's probably just me though.