Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner should Bach be played non legato?

i was just wondering how do you play bach?
i've always played it non legato, it's charming on some pieces but on some others with higher tempo it's kind of hard to keep up, does it just need a bit more practice or it's not meant to be played like that?

Play it however you want to play it...within reason. I play them legato unless they are marked otherwise (or if I can justify the use of something else), and use the pedal also. The key is to never let your interpretation obstruct the clarity of the music, especially in the fugues.

i agree, and i think clarity is the key, legato or non legato. i don't like someone plays Bach too Romantic like though, sounding fussy and uneven.

You are supposed to play the eighth notes staccato and the sixteenth notes legato. That's traditional, I guess.

That's what my teacher has me do. Lol.

the neatest thing about Bach on the piano is that the interpretation is up to the pianist. of course, i'm sure there is a long tradition of rules and regulations handed down by pianists who have worked out their interpretations..

who knows what Bach would have done?

I think CPE Bach recommends a non-legato touch. I would suggest you listen to Bach's vocal music (cantatas, etc.), and let that inform your imagination (which would definitely suggest a legato if listening to the singers, but pay attention to the orchestsral musicians also).

In the 6th (E maj) 2 part invention, a detached portamento character really helps the syncopated eighths stand out, against the ones on the beat. Try it!

Assuming a crotchet beat, this is typical, yes. Correspondingly, if the beat is a minim then the crotchets are likely to be detached and the quavers legato.

Best wishes,
Matthew

It may be traditional, but it is also balderdash. Bach is music, just like any other composer. You wouldn't dream of applying such a crass formula to the least of the classicists, romanticists or moderns. Why then apply it to one of the greatest composers of all time. Start treating Bach's music like music and you'll discover what music can really be.


John

Indeed, it's a shame people are taught to play Bach like this sometimes (no pedal, no rubato, etc), in my opinion anyway. Some Bach just screams out for a little romantic touch. Yes it's baroque music, but that is shown in the music itself, not how it is played.

Since the classical era, composers have generally marked all articulation explicitly. In the baroque, there were common conventions for articulation, and only deviations from those were usually marked. No, you wouldn't apply the baroque convention Contrapunctus describes to more recent music, but neither is it 'balderdash' to be aware of it when playing music from that era.

Best wishes,
Matthew

But it is balderdash to make up and promote arbitrary rules, which do no more than straightjacket the music. Worse this perpetuates the myth that Bach's music is somehow different from any other music - pure logic, pure mathematics, cerebral rather than emotional etc etc. Getting away from this is a start in discovering some really remarkable and moving music in just the same way as Chopin, Brahms and any other composer but miles better.

Lack of articulation marks does not give us the excuse to impose a one size fits all onto some of the greatest music ever written. Someone on this forum recently wrote of hating Bach's music finding it dry as dust. This is inexcuseable.


John

Stating a conventional expectation of articulation (itself neither 'made up' nor 'arbitrary') does not prevent one doing something different where appropriate. Still less does it say anything about dynamics, or imply any taking of sides in controversial questions such as rubato or pedalling.

Nobody in this thread has made any such suggestion.

Erroneous, certainly, but 'inexcusable' is perhaps a little strong.

Best wishes,
Matthew

Sorry to butt in, but I love the word 'balderdash'.
Play it however you think sounds best.

This topic has been quite contentious over the years - specially after the growth of the "original instruments" music. I have friends who specialize in baroque, and there are of course many black-and-white ideas (as with most subjects in music) which can be at times detrimental to the music itself.

One experience that helped change all that for me a long time ago was listening to WTC C major, book I in a church, played by an organist. That sound was so different from the harpsichord (or any other keyboard instrument of the era) and seemed so appropriate that it made me wonder if the organ might not have been the "clavier" that Bach intended for that particular work. I found that looking at individual P&Fs from WTC from that perspective appeared to point to individual instruments in some cases (i.e., organ for C#minor Book I, harpsichord for C minor Book I). In order to approximate the sound of the organ performance on a modern instrument, considering all the "reverb" in a church, for instance - the closest approach might be to even use some pedal (maybe half pedaling, very discreetly).

If one considers that Bach was a master of several (very different) keyboard instruments (and even knew the early forteppiano, which apparently he didn't care for much) then - even looking at the subject of "correctness" or articulation, one should not dismiss legato playing (as in the organ) and/or only consider articulations pertaining to harpsichord or clavichord techniques as being the only ones that should be applied when playing a modern piano.

JF

There are a number of approaches to how Bach's music should be played. There are those that feel that if you're playing Bach's music on a piano, then take full advantage of the possibilities for dynamics and articulation that the piano has to offer. There are also those (as JAF stated in other words) who feel that Bach's music was written for the harpischord and therefore the pianist should treat the piano as though it were a harpsichord when playing Bach's music. Now I know I got off a little there, but I think as far as articulation is concerned, the "rules" for articulating a piece will also vary based on what school of thought in which the pianist was taught.