Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards New Fazioli is coming from VSL

Then your search is over and this Fazioli should not be in your circle of interest. You listed multiple expensive pianos for someone who should be happy with one.

Can someone who has tried both compare this to the Stage A Fazioli?

I find I can't make the D-274 dry enough for my liking for every day use, though do like the tone very much. Same, though to a lesser degree with the VSL CFX. The two others I own (280VC, 130) are Stage B and more suit the sort of room sound I like for daily practice and playing. What I mean is that they sound realistic to me in a small room. They're not as rich or dynamic as the D-274 or CFX, and notes don't ring out as much, but I don't find them at all muted in any sections. Not sure this is true with the F212.

Some say that lack of dynamic range is a 'feature' of the Fazioli. Others say the F308 is 'clear and direct'. Does this mean that it doesn't sound dull in any areas of the keyboard as the F212 seems to in the mid-bass?

In the F212 description, VSL makes this statement:

There was only one thing holding him back, and that was the feeling of one specific octave. After tweaking the intonation of certain notes didn’t help, Mr. Paolo Fazioli himself made the trip to Stuttgart and brought with him a brand-new hammer-row that immediately made this instrument sing over the entire range, with beautifully rounded tones across the keyboard spectrum.

I'd be very curious to know where that octave was.

To be clear, the notes I"m complaining about start at the 2nd E from the bottom, going up through the three semitones (F,F#,G) above it. The Eb below sounds fine as does G#. I think I'm going to drop VSL a note but expecting them to say it's the way the piano is.

Trying to work out if I can even find the disk space to demo this. Early comments aren't persuading me...and, as per usual, neither are the demos on VSL's website. Based on what's there, I quite like the sound for louder and more staccato passages, but I had a viscerally negative reaction to hearing the render of Clair de lune on the 212; there didn't seem to be any delicacy or subtlety to whatever preset was used for it.

I would say that both the F308 and the F212 share a similar basic tone characteristic of all Faziolis, however in comparison the F212 sounds oddly muted and dull in the mid through lower midrange. The F308 sounds much clearer and more forward here, and also much larger overall, although the Stage A space is considerably more resonant.

Neither one of them has the kind of dynamic or tonal range you'll find in the D-274 or CFX, but this is just a quality of Faziolis in general. They are very tonally consistent and somewhat dry across the entire range. You either like it or you don't.

That being said, I seriously doubt anyone who didn't like the F308 would find the F212 any kind of improvement. To me it just feels smaller, less clear, and less dynamic. And considerably less immediate and alive than the 280VC, which is the other VSL modern grand recorded on stage B.

But if you do like the F308, you might also like the smaller cousin, as they share many of the same characteristics.

As a person who uses VSTs, this is definitely in my circle of interest, whether I am for it or against it. In this case, I already had an informed opinion about the actual instrument, and gave my opinion pages ago, in this very thread. That said, I was curious if my expectations match my experience or if it might not. I waited for it’s debut, and my opinion was reinforced by my experience and the experience of some others. And, I am engaging in discussion about it and sharing my experiences, which is a valuable point of data for those who wish to have multiple opinions upon which to base their search.

Agreed. They seem to be leaning into the character instrument vibe with their latest instruments.

Even their F308 seemed oddly throttled, because Fazioli’s don’t tend to be the most dynamic instruments, but that one should’ve been capable of more.

I don’t understand the direction they’re going in or the choices they are making. As a character instrument, perhaps, but if that’s the case, it might be better to advertise it that way.

More power to them, but this certainly won’t be for me.

So the answer to my question seems to be that the F308 and F212 are somewhat similar, with the F308 being more clear and direct and more reverberent. I suppose I should trial the F308. I trialed the 280VC and didn't like it. Then I got a 'too good to pass up' deal on it the full license on VI-Control and impulsively bought it and now it's one of my favorites. I had to work on the configuration and get used to it. Maybe that will happen with the F212. That mid-bass octave worries me though. I sent a note to VSL support on it for explanation/suggestions.

There's a recording of a Haydn sonata played on the VSL F308 which sounds fairly dry using a combination of full license microphones.

BTW- I can't agree with the 'one piano for everything' objective. One of the principal advantages of going the VST route is that one can own many pianos with varied tonal characteristics, as opposed to a single (if possibly superior to any individual VST) solitary acoustic piano. Unfortunately it can also become a curse for those of us with collectoritis, like myself.

When they implement the same pedalling capabilities as their 2009 Vienna Imperial I'll look at more Synchron pianos. I also won't buy another piano library that doesn't have una corda samples. Prioritising the number of mic positions over basic functionality is ridiculous IMO.

I like the Synchron Steinway, CFX, and Imperial, but they could have been perfect (for me).

As I play more, I feel like the presets that VSL has gone for here are focused on very quiet, "character" playing and are not versatile. I enjoy them a lot for what they are, but I wanted to get some more dynamic range out of the instrument and have it feel less muddy. I'm especially enchanted by the idea of using this for a lounge/cocktail piano feel.

I wanted to share my settings, which I have found already made the instrument feel far more expressive and less "felty" (if that makes sense). It's an ongoing experiment and it might be too much on the harder velocities, but I wonder if going this direction might help us get more mileage out of the instrument.

I am playing on a N1X:
Start in Surround Player as baseline
-Increase midi sensitivity slightly -I am using +1
-Linear velocity until 80, then a steep climb to max around 110
-Take out reverb and add sparingly
-Decrease the body to about 5%
-Note release samples at 0
-Put sympathetic resonances at -6
-Emphasize the condenser mic and add in the other mics for flavor. I am enjoying using a touch of mid for the room. Currently, I use just condenser, ribbon, and mid 2

You guys are definitely far better than piano players than me from what I can tell so take it with a grain of salt. I'm an enthusiast chasing a sound.

I've found that it really needs to be EQed to help remove some of the soft, diffuse quality. The default player preset sounds more like what I would expect from a mood or atmosphere patch, but if you take the EQ profile of the "Pop" preset and use that as the default, it starts to come into focus more.

The piano is still not to my taste overall, but this seems to help clean things up a bit.

Ah, I like your wording much better! Yes, that's it exactly. I like the atmospheric and moody sound, but it's a bit overwhelming for when I just want a dry, close piano sound that sounds like it would be in a living room or lounge.