Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards (Kinda) sticky keys on a brand new Kawai MP11SE?

Hi,

I traded my Yamaha CP88 (great stage-piano) for a Kawai MP11Se because I love keyboard feel of the Kawai better. I have a totally new Kawai. The production date is of march 2023. After several weeks of usage I noticed that some keys stick a bit when they aren’t touched for a few hours. It only seems to be all the black B-flat keys across the entire keyboard.

The keys aren’t completely sticky. Again, it is only after a few hours of non usage that they feel kinda sticky. Weird thing is also that when I touch those keys once after a few hours of non usage, they play normal thereafter. Don’t know what the “normal” sticky problem of this model is, but in this case the keys stuck a little bit and after you apply some extra (minimal) force they fall through the base position.

Could this be something that will solve itself after some time? Does the keyboard need to be broken in?

Hi Appelflap,

As someone who has owned an MP11SE since 2017 I have had the keys serviced twice by Kawai under warranty, most recently 2-years ago for this issue.The B-flat and C keys seem most prone to this problem although any key can be affected and a couple of these keys are showing the same symptoms yet again. I suspect that it may have something to do with localised heating from the internal electronics particularly affecting these keys but I have no actual evidence in support of this hypothesis!

There have been many threads about this problem in both the original and second generation of 'Grand Feel' keyboards (just use the Forum's search function). Fundamentally, the wooden key-stick has a Foam pad with a low friction Teflon sheet bonded to its top surface which interfaces with the pivot screw on what would be the knuckle joint of an acoustic action's hammer mechanism. Unlike in a full acoustic action, when the key-stick pivots upwards it causes the pivot screw to move horizontally along the Teflon pad and over time this can become dislodged from its supporting foam base; not really that surprising when trying to bond the material with the lowest frictional resistance known to exist to its substrate! It's a relatively straightforward matter to remove the old pad and replace it; although dismantling the instrument requires some knowledge and expertise. In the third generation 'Grand Feel' keyboard Kawai have completely redesigned this interface by replacing the pad and screw interface with a bespoke nylon design which eliminates this issue entirely but the third generation of the 'Grand Feel' action is currently only available in their cabinet instruments and probably requires a complete redesign of the MP11SE's chassis in any successor to incorporate it successfully.

Depending on where in the World you are will determine the length of Kawai's warranty and any consumer protection afforded by local legislation. The standard advice would be to contact your supplier and ask for a repair or replacement or a refund if that's what you prefer, provided your local consumer legislation supports this option.

However, there is not any other slab/stage style instrument that, in my opinion, betters the MP11SE's action so it maybe something of a pyrrhic victory in denying yourself the use of it.

In the long term, once out of whatever warranty term is applicable to you, it takes a skilled technician about 3-hours labour plus parts to dismantle, renew the key-stick pads to all 88-keys and reassemble and test the instrument. Hence, I've taken the view that as this probably only needs to be done once every three-years or so that this is far less than a traditional acoustic instrument demands in routine maintenance and to factor this cost into the overall cost of ownership; you may come to an entirely different conclusion, of course!

I hope that this helps with whatever course of action you choose to take and it doesn't stop your enjoyment in continuing to pursue making music in your life.

Best wishes,

Tog

Thanks for your extensive reply. I’ve read about the sticky key problem on this forum. Problem is I just can’t imagine that a brand new keyboard (production date march 2023) is suffering from this issue.

BTW in this video the sticky key problem is demonstrated. My B-flat keys do have the exact same behavior. However, they stick only once each playing session. That is: when I haven’t played the piano for, say, 1-2 hours, the B-flat keys do show the behavior as demonstrated in the video. But when I have played a key *once* it doesn’t get stuck anymore during a whole playing session. Is that typical of the sticky key problem?

Hi Appelflap,

Yes it is in its early stages.

I've never known the situation to improve over time, only to worsen. It's an inherent issue with the design, hence why Kawai have developed an alternative solution with the 'Grand Feel III' keyboard. Some instruments do not appear to have suffered with the problem at all, although there doesn't appear to be any correlation with production date etc.

I still suspect that it maybe linked to keeping the instrument powered up and unused with the internal heat from the electronics 'drying out' the adhesive on the pads at different rates and promoting the problem. This may explain why some instruments seem to suffer with the issue and others do not as usage patterns differ from instrument to instrument. I was also advised by a Kawai approved Technician to keep the instrument shielded from direct sunlight to avoid it heating up too much, hence my hypothesis!

Good luck.

Best wishes,


Tog

Maybe it's not brand new then?
Have they attempted to palm off a demo model as new?
I think if you open her up and take a look at the condition of those pads, you'll be able to see any wearing.

I suspect the same. That it is not brand new. When indeed it is the case that the so called sticky keys stick only once when you haven’t touched the sticky keys for 1 to 2 hours then it must have been used already. Can’t imagine that new once have this “wear” problem right from the beginning.

Can someone with a (faulty) Kawai MP11SE double confirm that the sticky key problem begins with a stuck key when you haven’t touched/played that particular key for a while, but when you play the key several times with a minimal period between the key doesn’t stick (@Tog: that’s how I interpreted your answer that “ [..] it is in its early stages”

Yikes, I hope this doesn’t happened to mine. I have had it 2 months and it’s in action daily, so far no issue. I would have to have my piano tech do the repairs shown in the video. I would think yours should certainly be covered under Kawai warranty. Good luck, and please post further results, thx

I think you’re good. I have the piano just 3 weeks and I noticed it 2 weeks ago. It isn’t that noticeable and the issue is most noticeable on only two b-flat keys. So I suspect that the piano is shipped that way and that I just didn’t noticed it right away. From what I’ve read everywhere is that the issue could manifest itself in a couple of years. Not earlier.