Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Advice for a very motivated beginner student

Hi everyone, it's my first time posting in teacher's forum. I'm not a teacher but I have a 9 year old who just started piano lesson about 1.5 years ago. A little background about my daughter, she started when she was about to turn 8. We got her in with our neighborhood teacher, who never taught her a proper technic (never told her to play with curve fingers, no theory lessons just flashcards and prep book). I never had piano lessons and knew nothing about piano so I didn't know that piano teachers suppose to sit next to students to observe how they play, she never did that but sat on a couch with her iPad most of the time. At that point my daughter just flew through the whole prep book and started to play songs randomly since her teacher didn't seem to have a structured lesson prepared for her so we part ways just right before summer. She took 3 months break from lessons and basically just learned from tutorial on YouTube because she is always motivated to play.

We started with a new teacher in September and she put her on Farber Piano Adventures 2B, she has been doing great but still always motivated to play harder classical pieces, so her teacher got her Clementi's Sonatina Op. 36. book which she absolutely loved. The thing is I'm not really sure if 2B is the right level for her but she obviously has no interest in doing songs from there and always wanted to play Clementi, Burgmuller (25 practice pieces) etc. Her teacher while agreeing she is talented seems to want her to focus on the 2B level book. But I feel like it's too easy for her and she's not motivated to practice those songs from the book.

Also her teacher is quite strict about how many measures she's allowed to play each week and will be visibly upset if my daughter end up learning more measures than what she's assigned on her own. She told me she wanted to supervise the whole piece and doesn't want her to make mistakes that will be hard to undo, but at the same time telling me she's very adaptive to change.

My daughter is a fast learner and always motivated to learn new songs (recently taught herself "river flows in you"). But s she is also afraid to show her work to her teacher because her teacher is very strict and almost never compliment her for learning pieces on her own. Last time she showed her a piece she learned by herself over the Christmas (Seashells by Becky Ainge), I could tell my daughter was waiting for feedbacks or maybe compliments, but instead her teacher just replied "Well ... I don't know that song". I could see my daughter's face dropped right away..I know she was disappointed. Now I'm struggling to find balance, I want to encourage her to play what she wants within her ability, but at the same time her teacher doesn't seem to encourage her to do that. My daughter loves challenging pieces, she will practice more on pieces like Clementi than the work book.

Here is a video of my daughter's practicing her latest piece. She just started this piece 2 weeks ago. Her right hand fingers are not curved perfectly and we're working on that, she's a lefty so I'm not sure if that's why it's so hard to fix her right hand. But since she has just started piano lesson 1.5 years ago, hopefully we still can fix this.

Thanks for reading my long post. Any critics, advice or suggestion are welcomed!

I'm not a piano teacher and I'm self taught on violin but there's one thing I know for a fact;

You must make haste slowly.



My thoughts are that the 2b book will help with theory and skills your daughter may have missed or did not learn correctly or didn't/doesn't show when examined. The 2b book will establish a solid foundation for future learning progress that your daughter knows "X" and can progress from there. Without that foundation what you will end up with are holes and gaps in her knowledge and skill. Because I'm self taught I know this and it's a major limitation that can't be overcome except by going back to basics at some point. Make that point now instead of in the future.

That she wants to learn other pieces, and can, shows she's talented but her doing so is actually an avoidance to learning the dull everyday stuff she must know. She needs to learn to concentrate on the lesson and not the butterflies outside the window no matter how pretty and interesting they are. To do this the lessons must capture the essence of what makes butterflies so fascinating. This is a difficult thing to do under normal circumstances but even moreso when dealing with those who are gifted and whose minds are so very bright.


You should have a talk with your daughter's new teacher and explain that your daughter is having some difficulty with the fact that she's not being recognized for the outstanding effort your daughter is putting into her musical education. That your daughter is doing it and the lessons at the same time shows that the pace of the lesson plan may need to be increased to keep up with your daughter. Lessons should push, not retard, advancement so I caution against slowing your daughter down to comply with the current pace as it's obvious that her talent exceeds that speed. On the other hand, too fast and she'll just be skipping over the high points and not getting the deeper understanding she should be learning. Basically you shouldn't shackle a gifted student no matter the subject, but you don't let them run wild either. In this I would suggest considering assignments for your daughter to dig more into the depths of music knowledge/lore which take the place of the time she spends leaning the "off lesson" pieces. Basically that bane of every child - more book based homework.



Those are my thoughts but like I said I'm not a teacher. I'm just self taught and wishing that I'd had the benefits of someone knowledgeable when I was just staring to learn.

First, your daughter's fluency and confidence is a huge accomplishment and benefit. The main things I flagged (as a formerly advanced player but teacher of other instruments) about physical technique are: 1) the prevalence of up and down wrist/arm motion, like using the hand/arm to hit/tap/strike the keys, instead of using the arm as a way to carry the hand around and putting more control and strength in the finger motion; and 2) as you mentioned, the prevalence of not curved fingers. To clarify "curved fingers", it's not that the fingers should remain curved in the same curve and depress the key via vertical tapping as if tapping/typing on a computer keyboard. It's hard to explain in the text the more fluid motion that I was taught but that is why you have a live teacher explain and demonstrate in person. Other suspicious-looking technique include: fingers being raised above the level of base knuckle, RH pinky hitting the key using more of the side-ish of the finger instead of more of the pad/tip, and being unnecessarily close to the edge of the key at times (thus having to move "in and out" often).

This is a small thing but I assume your daughter can't yet comfortably reach an octave. The way she attempts the broken octave, by turning the (left) elbow out resulting in fingers slanting at an unusual angle to the keys, is an inefficient and awkward motion (notice how she has to slow down to execute it) and while this might "work itself out" as she grows, I think it's worth learning from a proper teacher better ways to compensate for a still-growing hand.

I noticed some unsteadiness of beat and rhythm, that could be worked out with slow practice, practice of small sections with stops, practice with metronome, etc. (as opposed to simply running through the entire piece or large sections) but the degree of unsteadiness is not egregious for this age/level of player. In fact, knowing that a part is "hard" and that you can't play it at the performance tempo is excellent awareness. In terms of musicality, I noticed the unbalance of LH and RH, very common for students to play LH too loud. The musical part is understanding when and why to vary the voicing and the physical part is how to execute it.

As a teacher, when I assign a seemingly "easy" piece or exercise, it's almost always for the purpose of working on a technical or musical point. If a student disregards the assignment and simply does whatever else they feel like...you're paying to ignore my expertise, and if you don't want my advice/guidance, then why are you here? If someone does the assigned work (meant to develop skills that I consider necessary for the young musician's development) and also spends time and effort on experimentation and personal interests, that's fine. I encourage my students to have those and will try to relate some skill that we are doing in "assigned work" to something that helps them in other stuff that they are playing.

I view my job as a teacher is to keep track of the skills you have and the skills you want (or that I want you to have) and how to get there, teach you things that you can't or won't get yourself, teach you how to learn. If you want to learn from tutorial videos, you just don't really need me. If you think this teacher has something to offer that you can't achieve on your own, I would stay with her, do the assigned work, and keep your side projects to yourself, unfortunately. If you don't trust the teacher's path or want the teacher to be on the path you chart, then move on.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the advice. I agree with what you say completely, her foundation has not been properly laid down. I have to add that while it is boring for my daughter to practice those 2b songs, she still did it and managed to deliver to her teacher's expectation every week. I feel like the workload is not enough for her that she still feel like she wants to play other pieces. She is only given 2 scales to work on so far, she doesn't enjoy it very much but I still encourage her to do it.

Her teacher is very hard to talk to. Whenever I raise some concern or even advocate for my daughter, I can feel that she is offended I even suggested anything. I understand she wanted things to be done her way but I just don't want my daughter to feel discouraged and lost interest eventually. She said to me she doesn't feel like she's being challenged and some lessons are too boring. I am not a tiger mom, I never pushed her to do more that what she wanted but I'm also not sure if I should tell her to stop doing things outside of lessons .. it seems like I'm taking her joy away.

Thank you for your input! These are great advice. I do notice her finger raising problem as well, it gets worse when she has to play fast pieces but she has a hard time slowing down. Her counting needs a lot of work, she listened to Clementi pieces a lot in our car so I assume she plays by ear rather than counting beats according to music sheet.

I'd like to add that when she is assigned the easy pieces, she doesn't ignore them, she worked on them and her teacher is usually pleased with her work on those easy pieces. I think my daughter feels like if she did great on those easy pieces, she would be granted to play a more difficult pieces and when it doesn't happen she get discouraged. I don't quite understand her teacher, if my daughter need to work on basic technique and skills, she could have assigned more scales exercise for her to work on but so far she has assigned 2 scales (D+F Major) over the last two months period. I usually don't like to tell teachers how to do their job but I feel like a few things can be changed in order to keep both teacher and student happy. She is not a very easy person to talk to sO I don't really know what to do.

I wouldn't be able to play the Faber book 2B all the way through and I've played piano for 47 years. I've also taught piano for 26 years. What this book lacks is music. It grates on the nerves for anybody who loves music.

Your daughter has music in her and the book doesn't hold much of musical value. I would switch teachers. Find out if the new teacher has a different program for all students. In the very beginning, it might make sense to have one or two primer books for all children. But really, the teacher needs a repertoire that is ten times as large to choose from for a child who has played for 1.5 years. The reason your teacher doesn't like this idea is because it's far more work. It's comfortable to put a mediocre student into a book and not plan again. But for a bright student like your daughter, one who practices, a teacher needs a new piece almost every week, and that piece should have a definite purpose.

A student might finish one piece, play two other pieces reasonably well, and need a new piece every week, possibly two. Are you willing to spend more on piano lessons? Your daughter needs longer lessons or lessons twice per week. The teacher needs adequate compensation for this level of planning. And you need money to build a repertoire of piano books for your daughter. No skimping on piano books.

If I were teaching your daughter, I'd have her play Gretchaninoff Op. 98, Burgmuller Op. 100 (Courant Limpide to start, not played quickly), Hugo Reinhold Op. 39, and Grieg Op. 12 which are more at the intermediate level. I'd also have her play simple pieces at the introductory level to reinforce certain skills. For instance, Twisters by Janina Garscia introduces 2 against 3 in the rhythm. Any introductory piece by Garscia would help with the imaginative side of playing piano. I'd teach Chicken Talk, by M. Schoenmehl for timing. (Piano Studies in Pop, 17 Jazz and Pop tunes. There is a nice Blues tune in there.) I'd teach Ivan Sings from the Adventures of Ivan by Khachaturian for pedalling.

How are you going to know which piano teacher to choose. If the place is literally packed with piano books and the teacher can't find books easily, grab that teacher.

I agree 100% with Candywoman. The faber book is terribly tedious and there are more musically interesting ways of developing technique.

I to say change teacher. Your daughter has potential and I would find a much more engaging teacher who will challenge her. It is by the way important for teachers to explain WHY they are setting pieces or exercises, so that the student and parent knows what outcome is expected.

I would possibly also encourage use of a metronome. The reason I say that is that your very enthusiastic daughter is slowing down quite a bit when she is getting to tricky passages for her. Encourage a focus on musicality not speed.

For one and a half years she's doing great. I wish all young students had that level of motivation. Well done to you as a parent for being so aware of what is needed. Great job.

A lot of suggestions already posted by other people so not going to repeat them.

I'm an adult learner myself with a teacher as a hobby. My teacher is not strict on repertoire as long as it's within my level which is intermediate. I would bring in a sheet from an online download to the teacher. Just reading through it she would tell me if it's appropriate for my level.

Like other people said already, learning from a beginner's book is necessary to build a strong foundation. Unlike some who suggested that your daughter should finish the beginner's book first before doing more challenging pieces, it's possible to set aside part of the lesson to work on 1 mvt of a Clementi sonatina until it's at an ideal performance level. Your daughter is already up to par with the easier materials and the teacher want to restrict the amount she is allowed to play. There is no reason why the teacher can't squeeze another piece in.

If the teacher thinks Clementi is too advance, there is the option of adding easier pieces from online downloads outside your daughter's repertoire books to make a lesson more interesting. My teacher would find interesting pieces online than going through the pieces in the assigned repertoire books including Faber Adult Piano Adventures in order from song #1 to the end of the book.

That's good context, that you are meeting expectations on the assigned work. Personally, I'd mostly likely have noticed this and automatically thought of doing more (and then see if the new load or pace continued to be suitable or not), but you might have to ask. In terms of the path from your current "easy" and your desired "difficult", it may also be worth asking for some help understanding what is to fill the gap. I would ask to attend a lesson by yourself or offer to schedule and pay for a phone "lesson" and discuss adult to adult - to help prevent the high risk that your daughter in her less mature intellectual capacity would misunderstand. You can relay the main points and outcome later without the distraction of the questioning and clarifying details.

Something I often do proactively, or am glad to if asked, is give a basic explanation or reason for why we are working on certain things and/or point out how something that we worked on previously is now applicable in the current work. If someone says they want to play X piece that I don't think they are ready for, I can provide some guidance on what I'm looking for before we get there. Thus the student/parent can be assured that "my way" is not arbitrary but there is thoughtful pedagogy behind it. As for the scales, it depends on what is to be done in the practicing of the scales, to say if 2 is sufficient or if you "need more" (same goes for pieces, actually - more pieces at a time with less depth, or fewer with more depth, or combination?).

If the teacher rebuffs a reasonable exchange and a genuine attempt to understand her teaching philosophy and vision (or if you hear it and it's not something you can get on board with), I would serious consider looking for someone who is more closely aligned to your values.

Please really do what you can to support your daughter's own initiative.
I suppose with your description, you have already decided to change piano teacher.
I think it is right. My son is also 9 years old, he has started 2.5 years ago. Until june of last year, he practiced 10 minutes, even not daily. I asked the teacher to bring more material and it has been done. Now he is working on a methodic book with a collection of authors such like Gilloc, Mozart, Bach, Hayden,.... another part the teacher let him to do a piece that he likes, that's Bartok for Children. For me it is above of his skill. He played it during the music school recital. But he is still not happy with the piano, he wants to play more lego, soccer....
I discussed with the teacher and I discovered that the regional standard is already nice to have 10 minutes/day. Just very few people will continue. Not sure how it works in the other regions.

Thank you so much for your response. We're on 45 minutes session weekly now and in my opinion there are too many unnecessary motivational tools I don't see my daughter needing it (stickers, points for practices, etc). Her teacher will spend at least 5-10 mins checking her paper work (how many days she practice, and giving points for each categories and let her choose sticker to decorate her music folder). Prize week even take longer because students will spend time picking out prizes using their points. I think it's a great tool to motivate small kids but my daughter is probably too old for that. She's already motivated to play and this is eating in to her time.

Also her teacher doesn't let her touch the piano unless she tells her to, so sometime while her teacher is working on paper work and checking her theory homework, my daughter will just sit there waiting. There was one time my daughter started playing while she was grading her theory homework, her teacher told her to stop and don't touch the piano until she said so. I don't know if this is normal but we usually end up getting probably 20-25 mins on the piano. I am willing to pay more for longer session if I feel like the time I'm paying for is utilized wisely and that my daughter would benefit from it. I am not sure with this teacher but again I don't know what other teachers do.

I appreciate all the suggestion. We love listening to classical piano music and she's already decided she wants to learn some of the Burgmuller's pieces so I just ordered her the book. Thanks again!

Thank you for your response, at this point I'm probably leaning towards changing teacher. The main reason why I'm staring this thread because I just wanna make sure I'm not being unrealistically demanding. I don't like stepping in or intervene with lessons but I have been observing for 6 months and my gut is telling me she's not benefiting from this lesson setting. I am stuck with contract until May but I'm staring this thread I am going to start looking though.

Speed is her big problem, she finds it harder to slow down and I was once told that is because she use muscle memory rather than sight reading skill, so she'll need to work on that

Thank you so much for your input. You got a good point on making sure she is assigned with a proper workload. I remember her teacher said my daughter is like a sponge, she absorbed everything she learned so quickly. was great at applying all the teaching points given and always came back the following week with all points corrected . But still the work load has not been adjusted and my daughter still doesn't feel like she's being challenged. So I'm not sure why .. I'm not trying to rush the lessons but if she is meeting all expectations, why not ramp it up a bit to keep it interesting .. that's my thought. None of this is explained to me and she is not always happy and a bit offended if I even question anything.

My daughter basically has to ask for a new piece from Clementi book because she's too bored. And when she is not given enough, then she wander on to YouTube channel looking for tutorials.

Thanks for your response. I never knew 10 minutes/day is the average. My daughter will get on piano daily and practice anywhere from 15 mins - 1 hour daily depending on how busy the day is, and still some of my friends said it's not enough because their kids usually practice 1-2 horse daily. But I don't want to force her to do more than what she wants right now, she's having fun with it so I don't want to kill the joy of it.

Is it possible that your son doesn't enjoy Classical music as much as mainstream music? I have a piano teacher friend who told me a few of her student would only want to play pop music and she has to find a way to incorporate them with classical music. My daughter loves classical music (most of the popular ones) so I don't have to convince her much. I started my daughter really young (around 5.5 years old) and she didn't like it at all, her piano teacher said I was wasting my time and money. so we stopped and resumed again when she was close to eight years old .. totally difference experience this time. I hope he comes around, maybe later when he's a bit older.

That is great that your teacher gives you a freedom in choosing pieces appropriate for your level. I don't think her teacher thinks Clementi Op. 36 is too advance for her since she has done a few pieces already within the last 5 months.

She performed Op. 36 No.1, 3rd mvt. in Sonanita Festival and awarded the highest scores possible, she also performed No.2, 3rd mvt for her recital and her teacher said she performed very well. She even said she got compliments from other fellow teachers which means a lot for her coming from them. So I think it's definitely within her live but still she doesn't get to do that much of it

Her teacher is in charge in selecting most of the pieces and ordering books for her (they have a certain music store they buy books from). So that doesn't leave us much choices. Anyway, thanks for your input, really appreciate it!!

our son's problem is that he is going also to a sport club, which takes the entire weekend and another two days after the school.
He goes twice piano lessons/week. If we want, we can go also to the music school for choir, solfeggio, recitals.... all included in the instrument price. Someones doesn't go to the sport club really spend all their free time there. They even do their homeworks there.
For me this is crazy, but we meet almost all the sport club's mates in the same music school.

Some boys like piano, but their nature is not sitting on a chair for too long.
In my son's case, he takes his initiative to play some his pieces, for me it means he is interested for those pieces. I just take time to listen and tell him I really liked what he does.
We should wait until he is more comfortable to sitting longer to understand the trueth.

BTW. 10 minutes/day is just the piano teacher's guess, there are many children don't have almost no progress at all between 2 recitals (8 months)

Your daughter seems quite talented so if you feel like the teacher is too strict and holding her back then change teachers. She obviously practices a lot which is a contrast to most of the unmotivated children your teacher works with.

Candywoman nailed this response.

Time to find a new teacher.

It's easy to say, "Find a new teacher," but not always easy to do so. Do you know other families with children taking piano lessons? Can you get some idea from them about whether they'd be right for your daughter? Is there a community college or four year college nearby with a piano faculty member that could give you some suggestions?

Your daughter needs a teacher that is willing to lay out a personalized learning track for your daughter and one who knows when a student is well past the sticker stage--and lets her at least warm up while she is checking homework.

Good luck and keep us posted!

I have a few friends whom their kids are taking piano lessons but none of which are as motivated or more advanced. I also know one family whom her daughter is taking lesson from one of the Cliburn past competitor, but her daughter is very very good and has won a few competitions under her belt. She told me that her daughter had to audition for this teacher so my daughter is definitely not up to that point yet.

I am now looking at a music school, and it seems all the teachers are good (classically trained with degrees in piano performance, and most of them won competitions of some sort). So I might check that out. I will keep looking but feel free to give me advice! I will keep you posted. Thank you so much for your response!