Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Grotrian G-113 vs Bechstein Concert 124

So,my quest for a piano hasn't come to an end yet.
I decided to buy a good upright. I currently own a Kawai which is OK,but I prefer to buy a german piano.

I actually visited germany last month, and had the opportunity to visit the Bechstein center in Berlin and the Grotrian-Steinwag factory in Braunschweig. a unique experience.

To my surprise - from the uprights from Grotrian-Steinwag , the G-113 (113c cm) sounded the best. It has some kind of intimate sound.
A recording of me playing it:



From the Bechstein series - I liked the best the Bechstein residence concert series (124 cm)
it has clear, bell-like tone with a very powerful bass.
A recording of me playing it:



price wise, the bechstein is around 30,000 euros and the grotrian is around 16,000 euros. That's a huge difference

What are your experiences with these two brands, and maybe models?
does the height really matter? I admit i liked the bechstein basses more, but i'm not sure, if that's worth 14,000 euros more. I am amateur pianist who plays just for the hobby.
I was highly impressed with the Grotrian despite it's height. I found it odd that I actually preferred it to their taller models!

Another crucial fact: this bechstein piano is actually sold. I live in Israel.hence - if i buy the bechstein i will receive the same model but another instrument. this grotrian is not yet sold so if i buy it - i will buy the same instrument i played on.

The usual advice that is given is always buy the piano you have tried and like.For most €14,000 less is a considerable amount of money to save.I believe the C Bechstein118 is also a very nice piano with a great good tone.For myself a G113 Grotrian would be too small.Have you ruled out a Kawai K800 or a YUS5? A larger soundboard with longer strings usually is an advantage for a tone that is similar to a small grand.(also for a better bass)
I believe I can "hear" many voices asking why not buy a grand?
The choice is yours of course.There are advantages to having an excellent upright over a grand.There are many choices.The G113, I think is the entry level upright for Grotrian.pianos (apart from the small Friedrich Grotrian) Do you think you could outgrow this piano as you advance in your playing?

Have you considered a W Hoffmann P120? (made in the CBechstein factory in the Czech Republic)

1. I have not tried the bechstein 118 - good idea (but need to fly to berlin again)
2. I had tried all possible kawais or yamahas - I just don't like their tone and touch - not for me
3. Yes - a grand is too big for my place, it's too loud, and I don't like a piano which is too loud, hurts my ears 124 cm is probably the maximum i would want
4. I hesitate because it is quite short. 113cm is considered a short vertical piano. but as for my playing - I think the touch matters more. both bechstein and grotrian have SUPREME touch.

[quote=tre corda]Have you considered a W Hoffmann P120? (made in the CBechstein factory in the Czech Republic)

Yes I did, the w.hoffmann p126 and p120. didn't like their tone- too bright for me.
Also, I didn't mention that bechstein and grotrian have an amazing touch that surpassed any other piano I had played on

I gotta say, having to decide between a £16000 piano and a £30000 piano is a good problem to have! As in a similar thread, if you like the pianos equally then perhaps look ahead to when you would want to upgrade, or sell for whatever reason. What kind of depreciation would you incur? Maybe you can get some ideas from the used piano market in your area.

Which also makes me wonder: are there no viable choices in the used piano market in your area? A used piano in excellent condition may be the better value as you won't incur as much depreciation if you have to sell it again.

I have been to both of those locations. Since I was there with my restoration factory manager, I was allowed to wander the factory floor at Grotrian. What a wonderful experience to speak with the people actually building the pianos. My only limitation was my limited German. Thankfully, many spoke English and we had a common piano technical language. The Bechstein store was also an enjoyable experience, but I love piano factories (I have not yet visited the Bechstein factory).

I would normally recommend the larger piano, but I get what you enjoy about the little Grotrian. It has a sweet intimate sound. I think the action leaves a bit to be desired when compared to a larger upright, as the 113 is a bit compressed.

Also, if you are looking for a really big fortissimo, the 113 won’t respond in the same way as the larger piano.

In the end though, you have to love it. I say buy what you love and enjoy!

I believe larger upright pianos do have longer keysticks which give an even better control and response.That is the nice thing about the uprights in the Schimmel Konzert series.However visiting two piano factories is more than enough on a vacation.
So you love the the 113 Grotrian, you could of course order the one you played, order a taller Grotrian 118 ,or the CBechstein 118, or124.Since you have played the CBechstein 124 model it may be safer ordering that one.You will find with all these taller German uprights that is is easy to to play both powerfully and much softer.As you mentioned earlier the response is excellent.

The downside is that you will not have played the actual piano you receive and that is a chance you would have to take.I think real lemons in pianos are rare in such high end pianos.It is more likely perhaps to be something you do not like about the piano at first.Many here do order this way and end up happy. It is not something I have ever done and I am amazed that I suggest it.These pianos are well regulated,checked and voiced in the factories but I would still have an excellent technician to prep the piano a few weeks after it has arrived and been allowed to settle down

By the way Rich is our piano expert and he gave you the best advice you could receive.Best wishes on your decision!

Thank you all for your comments, I forgot to mention few things:

*I had tried also G-118,G-124 and G-132. I did prefer G-113 over them! yes! why? I don't know? maybe rich was right: "but I get what you enjoy about the little Grotrian. It has a sweet intimate sound. "
true!!

Rich - what do you mean by a "as the 113 is a bit compressed." ?

And another thing: in that bechstein center, I had tried two different pianos of this model (residence 124). they sounded DIFFERENT. one i LIKED , one i didn't!
that's why I am worried.

My main question would be, probably, what are the disadvantages of a shorter piano? particularly for the long term. I know the basses aren't as deep, but what's besides that?

I love both, it's so difficult to decide

I think that the bass strings on a shorter piano go bad more quickly, but it is still too long for most people to notice. A piano with a compressed action will tend to wear out the action sooner than one with a full-sized action, but again, that may take a long time to be an issue. We are probably talking 4 to 5 lifetimes of a digital piano!

Longer keysticks I believe offer more technical advantages to the pianist.

BDB already mentioned this, but a compressed action has smaller dimensions. Shorter shanks, smaller jacks, shorter key length, etc. Think about it as using a smaller lever to move a heavy weight.

When playing piano, the result is an action that you have to insist a bit more for it to give you what you want. It can still play beautifully, but you will have to be a bit more careful when playing.

I hope that helps.

Thank you all for your kind responses, I guess, only me can decide now, will think about all the parameters!

Judging only by the sound from the Youtube you attached, I agree with you that I prefer the sound of the Grotrian piano.

Grotrian uprights do sound wonderful, even on the smaller side.
But the larger Bechstein seems to offer a bit more for you to stretch your vocabulary.

Interesting choice. I suspect you'll be moving to something different in some years even though these are lovely options. But for the moment, I'm having trouble saying that one is definitively better than the other.

It is a very personal choice.It also depends on the type of music the owner would be playing in a few years and the amount of practice that would be needed.For big pieces by Rachmaninoff or a Chopin Ballade I would say a taller upright like the 124 Bechstein would be a better choice..

I doubt the differences reflect construction quality. Most likely tuning/voicing differences. If you were in town longer you could get more information about these differences.

+1 The Grotrian did seem to have a particularly lovely tone. A hard choice, good luck to you!

Grotrians are lovely pianos but I also consistently like larger uprights so there is a conflict here. However for those two individual pianos ,judged solely on your recordings, I'd pick the Grotrian every day.