I'm an adult beginner. I want a piano that:

- I can grow into without wanting to upgrade any time soon
- is portable
- has a keyboard that will be reasonably easy to play ie not too heavy or likely to stop me from practicing - basically a really good playing experience
- has a keyboard that won't be miles away from a grand piano if I get to play on one at times
- the best grand piano sound I can get without spending more than a few thousand euro
- can be played silently without noisy keys as I'll be practicing mostly at night.

The Nord Grand seems to fit the bill and is in the budget I had in mind - 3200 euro delivered.

Is there any reason I shouldn't buy it?

Thanks!

That is a lot of money for a new hobby that you may or may not like.

I would look into and entry level keyboard from either Yamaha, Kawai, Casio or Roland.

Not sure about Europe prices but 800 euro should get you there.

Have you looked at the Kawai CA-98? The Nord Grand has a customised Kawai RH3 action and the CA-98 has a GFII action. If you try the GFII, you might actually prefer it.

The Nord Grand ticks all your requirements. I suspect that a Kawai MP11 would be a direct competitor.

Take a look at the Roland FP-90, as well. It has built-in amps and speakers.

The Nord Grand (I think) and MP11 (I know) doesn't have built-in amps or loudspeakers. So, if you expect to _sometimes_ play "out loud" (without headphones), you should budget for a pair of "powered monitor" speakers. The Nord Piano Monitor will work fine, as will numerous other speakers, There have been many discussions, here, about their merits.

I think that Learux makes a good point:

. . . If you're a true beginner (rather than a "re-starter", or a musician playing other instruments),
. . . the Nord Grand is an expensive way to find out whether you like playing piano, or not.

But it's your money, not mine.

Thanks for all the replies. I played a piano accordian a little when I was a kid, and have an old/ cheap Yamaha PSR-175 keyboard that I'm tinkering with as I'm researching pianos. Also I can play a few tunes on guitar and can play a harmonica by ear. All very basic level and I consider myself very much a beginner on the piano but I've always wanted to play the piano and I think if I have one that I really like the sound of I'm more likely to enjoy practicing and stick with it.

I have a few amplifiers/ subwoofers and speakers so external sound won't be a problem. I totally get the idea that its an expensive test to do but I'm pretty sure I will stick with it. Food for thought definitely thanks.

I had planned to buy a Kawai MP11-SE but the white grand samples from Nord seem quite a bit nicer, enough to make me willing to pay a lot extra. The beautiful crisp grand piano sounds are what draws me to playing the piano.

I would expect the Nord Grand to be a very satisfying choice!

The CA-98 mentioned is not portable, and the MP11 mentioned also stretches the definition. Even the FP90 is starting to get a little chunky, though might make the cut. Though Roland's best piano now is probably the RD2000 with its V-Piano engine, assuming you don't need the built-in speakers of the FP90, and it's a bit lighter than the FP90 as well.The Yamaha equivalent to the FP90, the P515, is also worth considering. I do not know how the noise level of the keys compares on any of these... any chance you could go somewhere and try them for yourself?

If you're fortunate enough to be able to spend the money on something that nice, I say go for it. :-)

Are you playing these instruments, or making your decisions from videos and audio sources?

Have you considered the idea of buying the MP11SE and upgrading the sound via a VST? Remember, the keyboard action is the one thing that can't be upgraded when you buy a keyboard. The sound can be upgraded via VST - just pick the most beautiful grand piano sound VST and you are ready to go.

[/quote] Are you playing these instruments, or making your decisions from videos and audio sources?[/quote]

I don't have enough playing ability to give them any kind of proper test unfortunately. I know the sound through my headphones of a piano recorded directly should be the same as what I'd hear playing it but of course missing the interaction between the sounds and the piano actions. The glowing reviews especially from the
guy from Bonners music store and pianoman chuck sold me.

I'm in Rep. of Ireland too and when I searched online there aren't any piano shops showing these in stock to play and try out. I'm visiting UK next month so considered travelling to the Bonners piano store near London but I'm pretty sure I'd just be frustrated at not being able to play enough to test them properly. Poking at the key's wouldn't tell me much. Kind of like showing someone who knows nothing about cameras a professional Nikon and Canon camera so they can decide which is the most ergonomic to hold, they wouldn't know what to check. I think I'm better off finding out what experienced players think and I'm pretty sure from the reviews that the action and sounds are very good and I won't be disappointed. Of course the logical thing to do would be to practice on my cheap yamaha keyboard, learn how to play then take a trip to UK to try a bunch of pianos - but I really want the nice action and sounds as I'm putting the practice time in.

Another idea is to download a few MIDI files to a USB flash drive (for example, this PW forum has quite a few MIDI files for piano, which were recorded by various forum members that you can download), and when you visit Bonners, play the recorded files through each of the pianos you consider in contention. Every DP has the ability to play pieces (MIDI files) from a USB flash drive. This will help you to assess the quality of the sound generator on the same pieces each time, and ensure it is to your liking.

There will be no substitute however to directly assessing the keyboard yourself with your hands/fingers. That you should be doing regardless of your playing level. Learn well one beginner piece. Use that to assess the feel of each keyboard you encounter (and the corresponding sound produced).

[/quote]
Have you considered the idea of buying the MP11SE and upgrading the sound via a VST? Remember, the keyboard action is the one thing that can't be upgraded when you buy a keyboard. The sound can be upgraded via VST - just pick the most beautiful grand piano sound VST and you are ready to go.[/quote]

Yes, this was my original plan, the VPC1 Kawai controller for 1100 euro and a VST. Then the MP11SE as the VPC1 is supposed to have a stiffer action and having to be plugged into a laptop all the time to run the VST isn't ideal. Then I played with the idea of buying a Yamaha N1X as having a piano in the house for the kids to play as they grow up is something that appeals to me. But really I need enough portability to be able to bring the piano up and down the stairs. Practice upstairs at night, bring it downstairs when I'm minding the kids and let them play on it at the weekend. This is pretty much why I started this thread, I'm not fully decided. The MP11SE would be 1000 euro less, I prefer the black colour (although I haven't seen the Nord Grand in real life). But it seems like most agree the Nord sounds are just that bit better than Kawai/ Yamaha/ Pianoteq etc.

[/quote]
Another idea is to download a few MIDI files to a USB flash drive (for example, this PW forum has quite a few MIDI files for piano, which were recorded by various forum members that you can download), and when you visit Bonners, play the recorded files through each of the pianos you consider in contention. Every DP has the ability to play pieces (MIDI files) from a USB flash drive. This will help you to assess the quality of the sound generator on the same pieces each time, and ensure it is to your liking.

There will be no substitute however to directly assessing the keyboard yourself with your hands/fingers. That you should be doing regardless of your playing level. Learn well one beginner piece. Use that to assess the feel of each keyboard you encounter (and the corresponding sound produced).
[/quote]

This is great advice thanks. Has me thinking.

I bought a mini-PC, which I called my "pianocomputer" and it was permanently connected to my FP30 (I hated the onboard sound of the FP30) and I ran the Pianoteq VST on that mini-PC. The miniPC was $190 USD and I bought 2TB HDD for $60 USD. So for $250 USD, I had a perfectly adequate Pianoteq computer. I doubt this would run VSL however, and I didn't try Garritan on it, but for Pianoteq, it was perfect... and cheap.

BTW, I left it always on, so I'd just sit down at my FP30 and play without turning anything on. That might not be applicable to you.

EDIT: BTW, you aren't quoting properly. The first quote tag should not have a '/' after the '['.

If you do this, make sure you format the USB flash drive first with the most basic Windows drive format, "FAT32", before putting the MIDI files on it. FAT32 is the lowest common denominator for all DPs that I know of.

If you can afford the Nord Grand and it won't make a dent in your wallet, then it's probably the best piano for your needs. That action is proven, I've had a Kawai piano with that family of actions and it was pretty good. When you add to that the fantastic piano samples from Nord and the fact they regularly add new ones, it's hard to beat. However if you are that type of person who is wondering if he could have spent less, it's not for you because yes, you can always spend less by using other well-proven digital pianos from the major brands and/or add VST-s on top of that.

Nord Grand looks good to me. If the OP can afford it and wants the best hardware DP sounds (many of them, all different and characterful) then why not? I think the full set (Grand, Nord legs and Nord monitors) looks bloody brilliant!

My one caution would be that OP wants to carry it up and down stairs every day...21kg just for the piano and it's a very unwieldy thing to manhandle...not something I'd want to do so often!

Good luck with that. In this forum you will have six different opinions out of five individuals.

PS: when quoting, use the quote tool of the forum or then type [ quote] instead of [ /quote] (remove the spaces I added after "[" for them to show up in this text) to start the quote. And use the preview to check.

It won't happen. You don't take a Nord Grand (or a Kawai MP11 SE, for that matter) up and down the stairs on a daily basis.

Both are great pianos, though! And I'd warmly recommend either of them to someone who is serious about getting into the piano, and is not limited by financial considerations. For me, a Yamaha P515 (or even a CP88) would also be a very serious candidate in such a situation - excellent keys, a bit lighter, cheaper, good sound, speakers. (I am saying this as a lover of the Nord's sounds and Kawai's keys.)

If you start piano from scratch the first year you will most be repeating the same little things one million times until your fingers get used to banging the keys and you can read scores more easily. You will be so busy with that so you won't pay much attention to sound quality

Purchase a cheap casio cdp. Wear it out and after a year get a better board. By then you will have better fingers and ears and you will enjoy the high end gear

I could not disagree more! The first year is when you learn the basic piano technique and will develop your hearing. You need a piano with a good sound quality so you can hear if you make the kind of sounds you intend to make - a deep resonating sound, a nobel sound, a soft and flowing sound, etc.

That doesn't mean your piano needs to be expensive. Find a portable digital piano with a triple sensor keyboard and get a VST, for instance Pianoteq.


Unfortunately, my casio has rather loud keys and I could not sleep in the same room with someone playing on it. Luckily enough, my husband can!

I think this is generally a good approach. The piano just has to be good enough, you can enjoy hearing what you are playing. Then you will be in a much better position to evaluate pianos.

You mention your solution needs to be portable - what do you mean by this, especially in the context of a piano which requires an amp and speakers ? Don't underestimate how hard it is to get a convincing sound from external speakers.

I've what most would consider very decent monitors but still prefer the experience (sound, location of sound and convenience) of using my P515's internal speakers. These slab pianos are really nice instruments, are portable, and represent the sweet spot in terms of value.

I'd still absolutely make the trip to Bonners or an equivalent - even with next to no playing experience you'll still see and hear the differences and it will increase the chances of you making the best purchase decision. Just be open and honest with them and they should advise you well. These are great places to visit !

I think Nord Grand is the correct choice for your requirements and generally it's probably the best instrument to begin one's piano journey with. If you can afford it, I'm sure you will be very satisfied. It's a safe choice.

To the op, I'm in the exact same position, I live in UK though, but we could maybe meet in bonners store and buy one each maybe they do us a deal? I'm going to wait probably until November though to visit bonners new store in Milton Keynes as its closer to me.

My background, I own a yamaha cp4 but want something different for home /studio use, I'm expecting a lot from the nord grand probably, and it may not be a significant upgrade from the cp4 but I'm still very interested in the nord.

I should say, I regularly use vsts, garritan cfx being my favourite, however for me personally I don't agree with this idea of buying a cheap keyboard and running a vst through it and hey presto problem solved, money saved... Its the feeling of connection with the keyboard and resulting sound that's a major part of the piano experience for me, and I can project emotion and articulation how I want exactly on a hardware piano, on a vst it's just not always possible, the 2 don't compare. For me playing a vst feels fake and I can't fully connect and project how I want to play across, there's like always something missing from the equation. The quality of the samples on a high end vst are truly amazing, but does that make them more musical or just of a higher fidelity? The nord white grand piano sample is about 300mb I think, the garritan is 122gb (combined) but to me the one in mb sounds far more musical and richer.

I'm worried about the nord piano monitors, in case there is not enough bass response like you'd get in a cabinet model or a system with a sub woofer. And I'm worried about the keyboard action, will it be fast and responsive enough for advanced classical repertoire and fast note repetition like the cp4 is. Also I keep hearing kawai actions not being reliable, you get 2 years warranty with nord I believe... What happens after that? Where do you take it to be fixed in UK, is there anywhere and what do they charge? Probably a fortune after 2 years.

I don't see the MP11SE at about 70 lbs (and of course physically large as well) as something most people could carry up or down stairs by themselves. Maybe you're uncommonly big and strong? If not, that could dismiss it right there. Even the Nord Grand at 46 lbs might be pushing it for some people.

Another option could be to get the piano you want for upstairs, and keep a decent low-cost additional piano (like a $500 Casio) downstairs for when you're watching the kids or for them to play on.


I don't think there's a real consensus about that. And if you're even considering PIanoteq, then you're talking about VSTs, and I think there IS consensus that you can find a better piano VST than anything built into any of the keyboards, even if people don't always agree about which VSTs those would be.


To me he sounds like someone more likely of the reverse perspective... i.e. if he bought a cheaper model, he might always be wondering if he could have been more satisfied if (within his budget) he'd spent more. ;-)


He might be able to leave some amplification upstairs and downstairs soi that wouldn't have to be moved, or possibly use headphones at one of the two locations. But it's true that sometimes internal speakers can also help provide a desirable experience, themselves or in conjunction with external speakers. Which, on the higher end, probably puts you back at FP90 or P515, if that's the route you choose to go.

Update - I just bought the Nord Grand, it's coming from France in a couple of weeks. Thanks everyone for taking the time to offer opinions and advice, after taking everything into account I'm still happy to go ahead with the purchase. I got 10% off as a pre-order and this combined with Brexit in a few weeks possibly changing import costs from UK I didn't want to wait.

I do get the point about the size/ weight not being very portable so maybe a cheaper keyboard for downstairs makes sense. I can deadlift 185kg so I'll give it a go and see how portable it is. Maybe I'll end up using headphones mostly so I'm not going to look at buying the Nord speakers yet. I also have a fully soundproof cinema room that I built upstairs in my house in 2013 (the build thread is at https://www.avforums.com/threads/rock-flix-10-year-anniversary-build-thread.1731438/) so the piano might find a corner there and use the cinema subwoofers and speakers. 3000w amps and a stack of 3 subwoofers with should be fun to try out. Some leftover speakers/ amps from previous cinema room upgrades might find a new home too, will have to see what works best.

Regarding the cost of the Nord vs cheaper options my last hobby of photography that I started getting into in 2005 turned into a decent wedding photography business as a sideline over the years so this is paying to kick off my piano hobby. I'm also spoiled for sound quality in the cinema room so I wanted to get the best piano sounds I could, something that matched a good piano soundtrack when watching a movie.

Thanks again.

Steve

Wow that was quick.

I hope you enjoy it and tell us your impressions when you get it

Naw, I think you wanted the coolest piano. I'd jump on those Nord speakers also, why not...

Anyone think those nord speakers will be fine without a sub woofer and will they be flat sounding like the yamaha hs7 speakers, which I hated as the sound was too flat for me, couldn't enjoy the piano playing at all.

I feel like you'd be paying a lot for the Nord name on their monitors. They're similar spec to the HS5s and are about double the price. Of course having the exact right color/brand is going to worth it to some people. If studio monitors are too flat for you maybe check out some more hi-fi-ish speaker sets rather than pure studio ones - Audioengine, Klipsch, B&W etc.

I do have L&R 685 B&W and CM4 floorstander B&W speakers, a BK Monolith amp and a couple of surround amplifiers as well as a few other speakers so will definitely try these thanks.

I will for sure. It will be a couple of weeks before it arrives, I'm hoping to find the time before then to learn something I can play on it when I unbox it and set it up.

I think you will thoroughly enjoy it. I have a Nord Grand and I am completely satisfied with it. The action is great as are the sounds. I'm using the Nord Piano Monitors as well, with an Audio Pro Addon Sub.

Look forward to your thoughts once it comes in.

I think they are adequate without a subwoofer, but they don't quite sound full enough for me on about the bottom 7 or 8 keys. I went ahead and got a sub, but I think many folks would find just the NPM's just fine.

Another suggestion; you can go to Nord’s website and download a PDF of the manual. The Grand has a very intuitive panel and interface and you can familiarize yourself with the instrument before it even gets there, as well as learn its features. The ability to load whatever instruments you want from the Nord libraries (within the confines of available memory) was a big plus for me. You will also probably want to put the White Grand sample on there when you learn how. Many folks consider it their best piano sample yet.

Good idea to get the manual thanks. Definitely will be putting the White Grand sample on immediately, its one of the main reasons I bought this instead of the MP11SE. Great to hear you are happy with your Nord Grand action, I can't wait to try it out.

I hope you enjoy your new piano.

My back story with Nord: When the Nord Piano3 was released I took the plunge and purchased based on the many audio and video uploads. I couldn't connect with any of the acoustic pianos. They all sounded fake. The attack sounded like a banjo. I gave myself a week to see if I would warm up to them but couldn't and sold it for a loss within a month. I still think the Nord sounds are great on recordings.

I've owned Yamaha, Korg and Roland pianos and never felt they sounded as fake as the Nord. I now own a Casio PX-S3000 and think the acoustic piano sample is very good and very musical.

I would try all the acoustic pianos when you receive it and play it a lot to make sure you like it for its sound and not for its "cool" factor.

For some more encouraging feedback, check the thread at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2982946 starting with the posts from Sept 24.

I got my NG early last week and I love it! My wife and I both like the White Grand sample better than the N1X Binaural CFX and I have not looked back once. She plays the piano too. I have zero issues with this piano. And, after I tweaked all thirteen samples that come from Nord (I downloaded all of the XL and LG pianos they have) I have a sound for every taste. I have nothing more to want in a practice, digital piano.

I did have to insert a piece of thick felt between the sustain pedal and the switch, internally, because the switch was not engaging until I pressed it all the way down to the floor. Now it feels and responds just like a real acoustic piano pedal does. My MP11 (v1) came with the same pedal and it acted the same way, so I knew what to do.

We are set and didn't have to spend as much money. We were both relieved since we took a chance on it.

My Nord Grand practice desk with Piano Marvel. The computer is hanging on the back of the desk, out of the way and wire-free.

No, I will not be posting any videos. Give me another year before I totally embarrass myself then.

I forgot to mention: Yes, the action does really play nicely with the samples. It gives you what you gave it. Just like an acoustic. I can easily go back and forth between my Steinway and the NG without an issue, in feel or response.

Just out of curiosity, is there not a printed manual included with the instrument?

Kind regards,
James
x

It does have a printed manual. I only suggested that because he does not have the instrument yet.

Ah, right.

Thanks!

Purposely derailing topics gets you time off or banned. This is a warning.

Well, since I am a beginning adult piano player, like the OP, my posts are dead-on describing how the NG is perfect for me and up to the task. Physically, sonically, a realistic monetary value; and with adjustability. I guess that sums it up for me.

Purposely derailing topics gets you time off or banned. This is a warning.

Purposely derailing topics gets you time off or banned. This is a warning.

The only thing I would add to what's already been said is that I think the panel interface is really well designed and intuitive. Granted, this instrument has a very tight focus and functionality unlike many keyboards that offer much broader capabilities. That makes it possible to utilize most of the functionality with the well-ordered layout of the knobs and switches on that easy to read tilted panel. Not nearly as much menu diving necessary. I have a Yamaha MODX7 and a Roland FA-08 for reference, which of course have different purposes, but require a good bit more menu usage.

I totally agree with you, Dude. It is so easy to spice up a piano sound using the samples section with the twist of a few knobs. It is great to interactively play with the samples while you play the piano part too. It’s just fun to play!

If it’s so intuitive to work with the Grand then maybe it doesn’t make sense to read the user manual while waiting for the delivery after all. Better start with the service manual to know how you can repair it during a gig.

Purposely derailing topics gets you time off or banned. This is a warning.

Except for the fact that there's more to learn from the manual than just the interface. Not sure what your issue is with Nord or the Nord Grand, but I would appreciate you not posting off topic any more. Move on to a thread where you like the topic.

The thread is about a guy asking if the Nord Grand is good for an adult beginner. I was one of those who recommended the Nord Grand. The guy ordered it. End of story Everything after that is off topic, including a recommendation to read the user or service manual Or anything else. There are other threads about Nord Grand, including one you created. I’m not asking you to move there, so you don’t ask me to move out of here. Pretty simple. Peace!

Naw, that's was on topic. Admittedly attempting to derail the thread with talk of cars and communism is off topic. Given that you have something like 4000+ posts and you've been here for about 12 years, you are probably aware that off topic posting and attempting to hijack threads are against forum rules. So please stop doing that, not because I'm asking, but because it's against forum rules.