Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum At what grade is it required to play pop songs

Hi everyone,

I am learning piano from a friend and I do not intend to take grading exam as I am currently 24yo which I felt that there is no need for examination. All I want is to learn how to play pop songs i.e jay chou, GEM, adele pieces. And if possible, yiruma's pieces too. May I know till what grade level do I need to be able to play such pieces?

I don't play pop, except when I'm jamming with friends (when anything goes - I make up stuff by ear or from lead sheets or guitar chords in songbooks), and I've been through the ABRSM grade exams (classical piano).

As I see it, you can play pop at any standard you choose, since there is no original piano music in pop - everything is an arrangement of sorts. So, as long as you can get around the keyboard in some fashion, you can play pop songs. Make it as simple or as difficult as you want.

For Yiruma, I think that his piano music is fully composed (correct me if I'm wrong - I don't play his stuff), so you might have to learn to read music and acquire a decent technical standard if you intend to play his original unsimplified piano music.

If I understand your question correctly, you should be able to find arrangements at any level. Generally pop songs aren't composed in the manner of a classical piece, so they end up being arranged from what might first exist as basic chords and melody mixed to a beat.

There are also collections of exact transcriptions for keyboard-based pop musicians. This kind of music can often be technically challenging.

But if you eventually find that you'd like something more structured, there are things like this:

https://www.rslawards.com/music/graded-music-exams/piano

I think a lot of Yiruma is rated RCM grade 6-8. I believe one of his songs was available as a grade 7 exam piece (I may be wrong).

There are lots of easy arrangements of pop songs that you can learn, so you don't need to be at a very high level to play pop songs.

However, if you wanted complex, close to original or even more embellished than original version of the pop songs, there are many around grade 7-8 level. I know a lot of Dan Coates' arrangements of pop songs (very well done btw), are grade 7-8 RCM pieces.

This is a tricky question. On the one hand you could likely get by with some basic chord progressions and sing along well with many basic POP tunes with little on the knowledge side aside from a few chords. Getting more progressive though, you come across the likes of Burt Bacharach, Rick Wakeman, Tony Banks even Elton John, all who have extensive musical training and backgrounds. If you want to be able to play like them there will be no short cuts for you.

Graded learning systems are geared towards reading and eventually advanced reading. It provides an excellent platform for doing just about anything you will eventually like to play. But, rarely with POP music (unless specific for solo piano) will you find arrangements for all your new talents.

There is POP recital scheduled for June of 2016 and also a discussion thread associated with it. You may want to keep an eye on it and see how people are dealing with it. Better yet, if you sign up for it, we can all struggle together.

My limited experience as a forever beginner learning grades along the lines of ABRSM, is that there is a chasm between that syllabus and becoming capable with rock and pop. For pop you will need to learn chords, their various types, their voicings, chord progressions, and lots of variation of mostly syncopated rhythms, walking bass, swing and so forth. I have seen grade 8 pianists fluent in Bach, Chopin, etc, struggle with quite simple pop, and vice verse of course. Then there's jazz. The point being pick your learning path for desired target.

Pretty much, but there is a large crossover between jazz and pop. Jazz uses more complex harmonies/progressions and has an emphasis on improvisation but they're fundamentally quite similar, and I'd imagine a competent jazz pianist would be comfortable in most other contemporary styles after a little time adapting.

I think the original question is a bit mis guided. They are different styles that require different approaches, but also there's a vast range of pop piano from easy to difficult much the same as classical. It's like asking what grade do I need to get to play classical music? Well it depends entirely on what you want to play.

There's a huge difference - pop is as easy (or difficult) as you want to make it, because everything is an arrangement of some sort (listen to Elton John performing his songs); classical is completely written-down, and you play what the composer wrote.

Therefore, for classical, you have to be at a certain technical standard to play the pieces. With pop, you don't. If you want to make up flashy stuff, you can, otherwise just play the tune with RH and simple chords with LH.

VeraGene --

As you see, there is no simple answer to your question. But I have a question for you:

. . . Why do you _care_ what classical "grade" you need to play pop?

Start studying piano, and at some point, you'll start playing pop. It doesn't matter when that happens.

I'm concern because currently I have just started grade 1 and I would like to know how much knowledge required based on classical grading in order to proceed to pop songs comfortably.

If you have no interest in classical piano, why not start playing pop right now? Forget about grades - really.

Start by familiarizing yourself with the keyboard - pick out pop tunes by ear with your right hand (RH). Then try out notes on left hand (LH) that fit the tune. You're now playing pop music.

BTW, that's how many famous pop stars (and jazz pianists) got started - playing by ear. Some of them can't even read music.

But if you want to play written-down music by Yiruma, you'll have to get comfortable with reading music notation.

Umm... at any grade you like?

The biggest difference in the genres is that not everything is going to be well charted for you wih POP. With classical everything is well charted, indexed and can easily be slotted in to rough grade level.


Yes, and how well you want to be able to play it.


You need to be at a certain technical level to play many classical pieces, agreed. You also need to be at another technical level to be able to play them well. Same is true with POP and much of Jazz. A lot of it is comprised of doing your own thing which is an entirely different approach. This is is an art of itself and to become very good at it takes practice and experience.

Chords and progressions will be important in this genre so get on to these early if this will be your target genre.

No, you don't need much technique for POP and much of Jazz.

Pop music doesn't involve a lot of fancy stuff of the sort classical pianists play. In fact, dressing up pop tunes with lots of runs and arpeggios just serve to destroy the simplicity of the tunes. Why turn pop tunes into pseudo-classical stuff? Listen to Lady Gaga, and see what she does on the piano. Or the piano part in Bohemian Rhapsody. Simple & effective.

I know two friends who play pop and light jazz, on piano and keyboards. One of them is making a decent amount of money from it, playing in clubs. He's self-taught, and plays entirely by ear. He can't play fast scales and runs smoothly, so he doesn't. Most of his stuff is straightforward RH melodies (occasionally dressed up a little with some extra notes), with chords and a few arpeggios in LH.

What he does, he does very well. He has no ambitions to play like Art Tatum, but his audience aren't there to be dazzled by brilliant RH runs.


That's precisely why I said that going by classical grades is totally pointless for someone wanting to play pop and jazz.

Learn to play by ear, then chords and chord progressions will start making sense. Otherwise it's all theory out of a book.

But you have to be able to read notes as well, get confortable with rythms etc...

Only if you want to play from music scores. One of the most famous pop stars in the world can't read music, and he regularly accompanies himself on the piano.

And some famous jazzers can't read music either.

It's much more important to have a good sense of rhythm, and to be able to play by ear, for pop & jazz.

All the times I've played pop music on the piano (including in a bar on a ship, for other passengers), I've played entirely by ear, sometimes with the help of the guitar chords printed in a songbook, if I'm not familiar with the song.

Bennevis, Wouldn't it be fair to say that there just different levels in anything, not one or the other side of the scale in terms of difficulty. Perhaps, to say not much technique is needed is a bit of a simplification and sweeping statement ?

The sky is the limit as it were, depending on what the player wants to achieve, interpret and how to express something ? As a beginner you could play very simple arrangements .. or not, if you are at a more advanced level.

I very much enjoy listening to many a vkgoeswild cover, she comes from advanced classical background. With many of her arrangements she tries to express on a piano what a whole band plays, her works can be far more complex than the original piano parts where the piano is only a supporting instrument.

One of my all time favourites covers of echoes by Pink Floyd, I enjoy it as much as the full version personally, but it certainly doesn't look very simple or easy to play, at least seems to me that way.




here some silky Metallica skills on display




Sure, there are many more arrangements around that are played more simply. Perhaps it is not such a black and white topic, depending on goal, there is no simple yes/no answer ... IMHO of course, that's how I see it.

Who said anything about dressing it up with classical riffs? I agree, it is the wrong approach and not the right thinking. This doesn't mean though, that if you can play classical at a basic level you will automatically be fine with POP and be able to do it well. Personally, I feel I am coming up to speed quite well with classical but always struggle to come up with decent POP arrangements. Largely because I need to invent things that haven't been spelled out for me. As correctly mentioned earlier, many very proficient classical musicians will struggle with POP but will do great with Chopin. Of course the reverse is also true. It is not a matter of one being superior. They are just very different, require different skills and very different approach. Classical does NOT prepare you for POP and jazz. It may help but will not provide a free pass.

That's precisely what vkgoeswild does.

That's what you get when a classical pianist is let loose on pop music, and turns it into pseudo-classical stuff, which gives the impression that you need that kind of chops to play POP. You really don't - unless that kind of "dressed-up" classic-pop floats your boat. (It does nothing for me - and it does nothing for my friends who actually play pop on piano).

But if you're already immersed into that kind of thing, you'll have the expertise to make your own fancy arrangments. Hopefully, in your own style, not a copycat of what vk does.

I really don't get why people want to make things seem more difficult than they need to be, to get satisfaction from their kind of music. I've played Bridge Over Troubled Water (and other songs that use the piano) several times for friends in various styles and degrees of elaboration, and invariably, the ones that stayed fairly close to the 'original' piano part (as performed by S & G in their album, in the case of this song) are the ones they like best. Once I start adding more fancy stuff, it may be fun for me to play, but the character of the song gets lost.

There is a reason Für Elise is simple, compared to say, Op.111. It's a straightforward and simple tune. It could easily be turned into something a lot more flashy, but it doesn't lend itself to that sort of treatment, which is why Beethoven kept it simple.

Or, as the Marines would say, KISS.

Agreed. Well, for some you might. Take a go at Firth of Fifth by Genesis ... you will need some classical training for sure.

Not all great jazz and pop players are strictly ear players. Some are. Not all great classical players are great readers ... most are but the best ones also have great ears. You need chops for both. Just a different set is required.