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Interesting genealogy lesson. It seems likely that the EllenbUrg variation originated in the United States. That would make sense since in spoken English "burg" and "berg" come out the same, where in German they sound different and have completely different meanings, and in America "burg" is a familiar suffix attached to many town and city names where "berg" is not so familiar. It's easy to see that variation in the name appearing over here but not in Germany, and my telephone directory search of major German cities which found Ellenberg but not Ellenburg would bear that out.

However neither Ellenberg or Ellenburg appear in Pierce Piano Atlas so whatever they were manufacturing it probably wasn't pianos. It would be nice if Mr. Wilson would clarify this as he has repeatedly been asked to do.

Niles Duncan
Piano rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

lunarex, Blimey, this really is 20 Questions, isn't it? I work for a broadcast/professional TV equipment dealer and rental company. We design and install TV studios, edit systems, sell cameras, lenses, tripods, etc., and have our own hire fleet of equipment. ~180 employees in 8 countries, group turnover ~ $60 million. Nothing to do with pianos. Can I have a Art and Literature question next please?

EDIT: The nearest case of 'stencilling' we had in our industry was Chinese-made imitation Sony batteries complete with fake stickers, mostly NP-1B Ni-Cad ones. We didn't sell them, but other companies did, and to be fair they openly advertised that they are "Sony-style" products and nothing to do with the real product, apart from size and (alleged) capacity. They were cheaper, but didn't last anywhere near as long the originals from Japan. 'Poping?' Is that a anti-Catholic reference? In British English we use the word 'popping over' to mean 'dropping by.' Sorry if you found it odd, though I might remind you that we did in fact invent the language . Ah, what a shame. I was looking forward to meeting someone of such an obviously towering intellect and outstanding analytical skills. And so friendly, open and personable as well! You're really quite a funny chap, aren't you? I bet your Mum's really proud.

- Michael B.

Michael - admirable British style riposte. Made me laugh on Easter Sunday.

English is of course a mongrel language really, with latin, greek, french, anglo saxon and goodness knows what else mixed in. Possibly the largest vocabulary of any Western language. And exported to America with pride. And ever since we have been divided by a common language!

This Burg versus Berg thing is amusing. Totally irrrelevant though as there is no way this guy is going to answer any relevant questions. I presume that if burg is Jewish, then Burgers must be Jewish as well.

Was it Horowitz who said that all great pianists are Jewish, Homosexual and ....cant recall what the third one was. Male perhaps?

Please can we stop giving Piano Superstory any more free publicity for his German Jewish Chinese cheepo piano sold from the ether to unsuspecting buyers who probably just want something shiny to impress the neighbours with.

This is the longest thread I have ever read and I cant believe I am writing this in it. So I will stop.

Happy Easter everyone.

It is the season for the Easter Bunny. So the ever so tactful farmer on the estate next to me decided that today is the ideal day to round up his workers and go round shooting bunnies (with which we are both overrun). This is not relevant to Burger pianos but I thought I would share it anyway.

I thought my son would be upset at the mass slaughter on his doorstep, but in fact he said "can we cook some?".

Best

Adrian

Hi Adrian,

...no "giant bunnies" terrorizing the vegetable patches in your neck of the woods? (just read about one on Yahoo News the other day...). Funny, reminds me of a Monty Python clip.

And I think the quote by Horowitz was something to the extent of: "There are only 3 kinds of pianists -- hacks, Jews, or homosexuals"

--c5

Adrian,

Were you talking about a riposte or a repast in praise of Michael's British-style response. If it's the former, I concur! If it's the latter are you arguing that he ate him alive? !!

Happy Easter to all.


P.S. Now, can we all just let this thread pass into ether history.

Yes, Happy Ether everyone!


Sophia

Hello PD - it ws riposte. Now edited. But Michael woudl have eaten him alive....My typing is so bad (and the 12" Mac screen so small for my fading eyesight) that I have finally decided to learn to touch type. I am doing this at the same time as my almost nine year old son. And being beaten in all respects. I hope that one day, when I can type, my spelling will acquire some accuracy. In the meantime please put up with my numerous mistakes, including my favourite one: teh. Best, Adrian

Sophia,

LOL !!!

Adrian: I kinda like reposte. It's so ambiguous!

We need to petition Larry to get the PW SPELL CHECCK werking again!!

GP

Terry - You never answered my real question: you sell chinese pianos at full price primarily to non-players (parents buying for children) over the internet. How exactly is this a revolution in piano distribution?

I'd love to see lower-priced pianos efficiently delivered to the public, but I do not see how that is what you are doing.

Thank-you for your reply to my question.

Piano Suppository?

Why don't you just give it up Terry? The collective knowledge base here on PW dwarfs any semblance of claptrap one is likely to find in the price driven venue found on traditional internet auction sites. As just another run-of-the-mill salesweasel, you'll go far.

And with each phony "Thank you" offered to posters who've yet to have their simple questions answered, you continue to reach new depths of sniveldom.

After 8 ad nauseam pages of this tempestuous tommyrot, I believe it's time to adjourn to my EUROPEAN piano for an extended and requisite dose of Chopin and civilized respite.

Auf wiedersehen Herr Wilson!

Colin: Ouch!

- Michael B.

PoStTeNeBrAsLuX,
You post nothing but sarcastic remarks and accusations. I ask a question and you immediantly jump to the offense. I was curious about your occupation, period.

Then you jump on the superior kick that british is better or some junk. There might be a reason for your supposed exile.

I wonder why people have such disdain for the british attitude?

"Poping" was a typographical error. I guess you don't make mistakes. Just your Mum.

We made it perfect.

Now seriously:

What was the reaction in the industry? Did companies attack other companies for selling the "Sony-style" product? Was there letigation against them for using the Sony name comparison?

I am being sincere in my questioning. Just want to know how this scenario was handled in your country.

lunarex,

If you really wish to appear sincere in your questioning, I'd heartily recommend you didn't start an exchange by doubting the integrity of another poster in terms of their stated location, or indeed then interrogating them as to what they do for a living. The rules here are that one should disclose one's piano industry links, but as I don't have any, I don't really feel the need to say what I do for a living in more than general terms. I attempted to reply meaningfully to your initial question ("What is the point of this thread? Can someone enlighten me?"), and it was you that immediately started on the offensive: the sarcasm you got from me in return should hardly have surprised you.

So, leaving personal communication issues aside for a moment, in answer to your current question, we did indeed inform our clients, who said that they been offered such products, that in our opinion such batteries were inferior in construction and performance, but as I mentioned before, no-one was advertising them as real Sony, so no-one was really being fooled. Our main customers are the technical directors of TV stations, production companies, professional cameramen, etc, (i.e. we don't often deal with the general public), so they are generally highly informed and educated about developments in the industry, so less likely to have the wool (virgin or otherwise!) pulled over their eyes.

However I am not sure this level of education and experience is present amongst most people looking to buy a piano, unless of course they read up here and on other piano internet forums, buy Fine's book, employ the services of a good tech, etc, but I'd doubt that more than a small percentage actually do any of that before getting their wallets out...

- Michael B.

I cannot say about Jewish or otherwise, but Ellenburg certainly sounds American to me.
At least as a town name, there's Ellenberg (Germany) and then there's Ellenburg (New York).

As a family name, my thoughts would go first to Eulenburg. Now that's a name that has been in the music business since 1874!

i have been following this post for days and even tempted before to submit something. although i am a beginner and dont know much, i do know ethics....and noone here knows anything about this guys pianos.....who cares where the darn thing is built steinways essex is built in china, who gives a flying pig. if this guy sells his pianos cheaper to the public let him. if we would all give it some time truth will tell. i am sure larry fine will rate this piano....either junk or superb. who are we to put this guy down??? he is trying to run a business and here i hear one bad thing about this guy after another. he did nothing wrong. he didnt once put anyone down here, he was kind and considerate. he didnt answer every last question, but if you are really interested in finding out his number is posted....so give him a call tell him to send you a brochure go check them out, then come back and give your opinion. i could care less what this guy sells if he is selling pianos that make people happy then let them be happy. i am sure if they were not happy we would have heard something by now. i have read his feedback on ebay the only negatives he has is that book he sells. not one piano got a negative that i could see. and i seriously doubt his family bid on all those pianos. i will take advice from someone who is knowledgable and has played and inspected this piano in person.... i just dont see what all the hoopla is with this guy. granted i am only a beginner but i can read, for some people this is their dream come true....people that cant afford a more expensive piano. so to them he is selling a bargain. i dont know just my 2 cents worth. i am just tired of reading everyone bashing this guy when you havent even seen his pianos or played them.

While on one hand I agree with FunBurger that Terry Wilson has been cordial and very civil under very rough circumstances, I still have serious questions. I think JollyRodger is way out of line in his emotional response. However, I understand his frustration.

I think that we should give Mr. Wilson time to gather his thoughts. If I were he, I'd want to make a thoughtful reply.

Funburger,

I share your dislike of petty bickering and character assassination on threads. This issue, however, is a bit different. This is about deceptive advertising, not Chinese pianos. I have not played this particular Chinese label, but I have played other entry level Chinese pianos. They are fine for what they are. The problem to most of us occurs when a dealer attempts to pass them off for what they are not. These Ellenbergers are not finely crafted German pianos, and according to a number of respected posters here the price charged isn't even a bargain (despite the lack of bricks and mortar overhead costs). Mr. Wilson is indeed very genial. He turns the other cheek very well. But he has avoided most of the substantive questions he has faced.

I would certainly agree with you that the hoopla is getting rather excessive. Other brands are pushed with exaggerated claims of German lineage as well. The problem with this firm, and with Strauss & Sons (another story) is that they stretch the truth so far that it snaps back at them.

"While on one hand I agree with FunBurger that Terry Wilson has been cordial and very civil under very rough circumstances, I still have serious questions. I think JollyRodger is way out of line in his emotional response. However, I understand his frustration."

Actually Steve, there was no frustration behind my response at all. During my many months of searching for a piano, I was exposed to the kind of misinformation that Terry has been spouting in his replies. And I watched as those less knowledgable fell under their spell. It was very disheartening and I believe that PW serves as an important venue in highlighting those who would continue to operate this way. Terry's further attempts to explain away the myriad inconsistencies of his statements have in many ways dug an even deeper hole than the one he began with. I don't have a problem with the free market system. Rather, I embrace it. Personally, I have nothing against Ellenburg pianos and have made no negative comments thereof. Heck, I've never even tried one. Who knows, maybe they're a fine piano for the money. That's not the point. I respect Terry's aspiration to ply his wares as much as anyone elses. But be it pianos, cars, computers or anything else, everyone should be held to a plausible standard of verity for both merchants and consumers alike. It is here that I take issue. And while my response may be considered to be rude by some, it pales by comparison with Terry's lack of respect for the truth and his overenthusiastic attempt at procuring new customers. Not to mention the many dealers who routinely post here in a far more eloquent fashion, albeit their goals may be one in the same.