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I am very serious about purchasing a new YAMAHA C3X grand piano. What is a fair price for it? I live in Texas and am willing to travel within the state or nearby states to visit the dealership. Please provide some ideas on the price I should expect to pay. I don't want to get ripped off. Pianobuyer.com shows the MSRP is $55k. Thank you guys very much!

James

I suggest going to your local dealer, auditioning their pianos and striking a deal with them as they will likely be able to give you the best after sale service. If, after working with them, you feel their offer isn't compelling, extend your range to see what variance there is.

Use the Piano Buyer SMP pricing instead, and expect to see something between 10-30% off that number. Since this is a newer model for Yamaha, there's not a lot of data on the forum about what people are paying. Keep an eye out for the new issue of the Piano Buyer for a review of the CX models.

"Fair value" is something that needs to be assessed by buyers themselves in today's market.

For some it's running around finding the cheapest or "fairest" deal - for others it's actually much more than that.

As long as the question of "fair price" is only being asked in the context of comparing of one particular make and model, the answer can be anything.

Add to this the fact that what is a 'fair' price in one case may have nothing or little to do with another.

However, when comparing the outlay to "what else could be bought for same or similar money in today's market" the question of "fairness" takes on an entirely different meaning.

For some this opens up a can of worms, for others a huge opportunity.

So, you tell me what is "fair" - it's your own choice.

In case this becomes too "complicated" or "involved" I have a simple suggestion:

Ask the dealer to show you the average price for exact same piano paid by last 10 customers.

Why not?

Would this be 'fair"?

We gladly would.

Norbert

Everyone always wants a good deal and many people buy through the internet or other long-distance venues to "get that deal". The problem is that the local or regional dealer will not work with you for after-sales service or warranty issues. This problem comes up with some regularity on this forum, usually when it is too late for the person with the piano. Think twice about those perceived oh-so-green pastures on the other side of the fence and over those distant hills...

Geez "Norbert." So I "guess" according to "Norbert" since a 6'1 Brodmann or Ritmuller "sells" for "about" $15K, then the C3x should also "be."

I think what James is asking is, what is a fair price for him to pay where the dealer makes a decent profit, but he's not paying more than everyone else. That's at least my definition of being ripped off: everyone else paid $10 and I paid $20.

James, to answer your question. The Yamaha dealer in San Francisco has a sticker on the C3x's under $30K, I believe it was $28K or so.

I was there about a year ago and they had the new C3's for $26K and C3x's for $33K. I revisited that store about 3-4 months ago and since they cleared the C's they dropped the Cx's. I remember noticing that they brought the Cx's near the price of the C's. This dealer puts pretty good prices on the sticker but my guess is there's still about 10% they can work on.

40% off SMP of $46,798. 49% off MSRP of 54,999. Wow.

If a piano is being sold for half of MSRP, and assuming keystone mark-up, the dealer is not making a "fair" profit and will soon close his doors. A supermarket may be able to get by on 2 percent gross margin but no piano dealer can. If the math is right, it can only mean that MSRP is way past twice invoice cost and further goes to prove that the piano pricing model is still a festering pit of deceptions.

kurt

Wow Yamaha is really very expensive in the USA, even with the exchange rate that's over £30,000

Pianos will never have the turn rate of supermarkets. Remember they are making 2% on every sale many thousands of times a day.

They are very expensive to ship, house and sell. As long as pianists feel a need to find the piano that they like-dealers will have to be paid for providing that service.

Kurt, you are right in that the MSRP is deceiving. I am privvy to all piano's wholesale cost and MSRP (when they have an MSRP), and the multiple from wholesale to MSRP is very wide ranging.

That is why Larry and the staff of Piano Buyer established the wholesale-cost based SMP.

Using MSRP for any purpose will be misleading.

So, does Larry Fine simply take "known" wholesale prices and multiply them by a constant across the board (i.e., a standard percentage markup)? Or do fancy pianos get a greater markup -- moving SMP closer to MSRP for fancy pianos and allowing more margin?

The alchemy involved is as mysterious as were the sorcerer's spells to Mickey Mouse.

Now this deserves to be preserved for posterity in Piano Buyer.

No.

I guess this means, then, that for a given MSRP, Steinway's wholesale price is much higher than Yamaha's, but that Yamaha's wholesale/MSRP markup is consistent across its line, from the T uprights to the CFs. I'm feeling a little less ripped off, then … maybe.

That's not what I said nor implied.

What I did say is that when comparing only within one brand and model a "fair" price cannot be easily established nor, as Juergen pointed out, does a "lower" price always make sense.

"Fair" can only be established in a buyer's mind by comparing what else his money buys him on the market.

Be this cars, real estate, pianos or what have you.

If a Honda costs $ 5000 less than a BMW, the [whatever] "fair" price of the Honda becomes virtually meanigless.

Buyers will have to look up and down the scale to make sense of what "fairness" means to them themselvers in today's world.

It has nothing to do with morals or ethics, Brodmanns or Ritmullers as you suggested - but plain economics.

And personal choice.

Norbert

As usual, I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying Yamaha's are overpriced compared to Chinese pianos? Or they're a great deal compared to Bosendorfers?

Or you're saying if a BMW 535 is $60K, but a comparable Honda Accord is $55K, then the Honda is a great deal? Huh?

The CX3 is a great sounding piano. It is truly one of the best series Yamaha has ever produced. The only problem is that it's a Yamaha, which means no matter where you are in the country you are guaranteed to have your head ripped off its shoulders from a pricing stand point in comparison to other performance pianos such as a Ritmuller's GH-188, Perzina's T-188 or Brodmann's 187; all of which are European hybrids.

Shopping for pianos is fun. Take your time and explore all of your options. The saying 'you get what you pay' for is no longer true in pianos. You more than likely will get less than what you pay for with the standard brands and much more for your dollar with European hybrids.

Good Luck!

Dave's Piano Showroom
Tampa, Clearwater, St Pete and Brandon
813-282-0303
www.davespianoshowroom.com
European Hybrid Piano Specialist

Dear David Germino,

Please read the sticky post for piano industry folks:

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb..._Industry_Pros_-_READ_THI.html#Post24766

"Show some class, identify yourself and try to contribute positively to the forums."

"This is not a platform for people with personal agendas, it is a place where people with a genuine interest in the piano come for help, hints, ideas, information, and even to make new friends."

"It is NOT ACCEPTABLE for you to create posts thinly disguised as an innocent discussion when in fact they are nothing more than a promotion for your business."