Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Ivory 2 German Steinway versus American D.

I was in a piano store yesterday. they had many AP's, and a lot of DP's.
I saw a chart that categorized AP's into 4 tiers. tier 1 the highest. tier 4 the lowest.
what was astonishing to me (don't know a lot about the subject), was that the Hamburg Steinway was tier 1. but the NY Steinway was tier 2. really surprised at that. I just assumed they would both be tier 1.

Grrr. I just lost a long reply I was typing. This one will be a bit more brief.

I did what you are considering. I had the three Ivory II sampled pianos and then bought the American Concert D (ACD from here on out). I now use the ACD exclusively when playing for myself.

I find the most significant difference is that I find the ACD much more playable than the other three. I think this is the result of it having more samples per note, but it could be something else. In any case, I can play it with much more control than the other three. I never could fully tame the velocity settings for the other three, and after fiddling everything possible still sometimes had notes 'popping out' more loudly than those before and after it; yes, this was a response to my lack of control in hitting those notes a little more hard, but the increase in sound was far more than an AG would have created. I almost never have this problem with the ACG.

As for the ACD's overall sound, I prefer it to the German sample quite a lot. In particular, I find the ACD is considerable brighter than the German sampled piano from mid-piano up. To me, it sounds like the German Steinway they sampled has overly soft hammers. While I can't put a finger on why, I find the ACD more realistic sounding note for note.

In summary, I find the German Steinway my preferred piano among the three in the Ivory II set, but I rank the ACD sufficiently higher to use it almost all the time.

Hamburg Steinways use different hammers (denser, while NY hammers are softer but are typically hardened with lacquer). There are a few other, smaller, differences as well. Many people feel that the Hamburgs are better. Some of that is snobbery (European stuff must be better than American) and some may be legit. The two pianos have slightly different sounds, though. Depending on how the hammers are treated there are perhaps more differences between American Steinways. Some people say German Steinways are typically brighter. You can post in the acoustic forum for more info.

In Ivory, there's another difference as well: The German Steinway is a recent model while American D is vintage. Over time there are physical changes to pianos that alter their tone. I know Galaxy better and they have a vintage German and a recent German. The two have quite different tones. I won't describe the differences in depth unless you really have an interest. You can hear both in this youtube video. I personally prefer the sound of an aged piano but many people do not.

And lastly there are differences in the recording setup and the technology. American D uses the latest and highest-end tech from Ivory, so it is probably best in this respect.

In comparing the two Ivory pianos, recently a forum member described the American D as a more "silvery" tone while German Steinway is more "golden."

thank you very much for your awesome description.
I was watching a youtube video on Ivory II and the guy used the terms silvery and golden, like you did.
any thoughts about True Keys?
if this is considered thread hijack or not polite to ask on another guy's thread, please disregard the question.

any thoughts about True Keys?
if this is considered thread hijack or not polite to ask on another guy's thread, please disregard the question.

In my opinion, there are two virtual pianos that stand well above all others that I have (see my signature for my list), the Galaxy Vintage D and the Ivory II American D. Both play superbly well and I don't find flaws in the recording of their samples or the preparation of the actual acoustic pianos prior to sampling. They are obviously sampled from very different acoustic pianos and I would expect most people would chose one or the other based on which piano's original sound they prefer. i.e. the acoustic piano preparation, sampling, and playability of these software pianos are good enough that you can take that out of the equation and simply focus on which original piano, optimally prepped, that you like better. I don't find that true for my other software pianos, but I do for these.

If one plays mostly classical music I can see where they might prefer the Ivory II American D, but I play pop, rock, and standards and prefer the Vintage D for its more complex harmonics and wider timbre dynamic range. I think the Vintage D is much more versatile with a wider voicing range while remaining convincingly realistic. I don't think the Ivory II German D is a bad piano, but I never use it after acquiring the Ivory II American D.

I'd put the True Keys American, which I've tried for several weeks recently, in a class behind the Vintage D and Ivory II American D, but that's covered in other threads.

I wish I didn't waste the money on other cheaper pianos that are now of no use to me. Dai

I wish I didn't waste the money on other cheaper more expensive (i.e. EWQL) pianos that are now of no use to me.

In my opinion, there are two virtual pianos that stand well above all others that I have (see my signature for my list), the Galaxy Vintage D and the Ivory II American D. Both play superbly well and I don't find flaws in the recording of their samples or the preparation of the actual acoustic pianos prior to sampling. They are obviously sampled from very different acoustic pianos and I would expect most people would chose one or the other based on which piano's original sound they prefer. i.e. the acoustic piano preparation, sampling, and playability of these software pianos are good enough that you can take that out of the equation and simply focus on which original piano, optimally prepped, that you like better. I don't find that true for my other software pianos, but I do for these.

If one plays mostly classical music I can see where they might prefer the Ivory II American D, but I play pop, rock, and standards and prefer the Vintage D for its more complex harmonics and wider timbre dynamic range. I think the Vintage D is much more versatile with a wider voicing range while remaining convincingly realistic. I don't think the Ivory II German D is a bad piano, but I never use it after acquiring the Ivory II American D.

I'd put the True Keys American, which I've tried for several weeks recently, in a class behind the Vintage D and Ivory II American D, but that's covered in other threads.

I have Ivory II American D, Ivory II Grand Pianos (w/German D) and Galaxy Vintage D.

I appear to be in the minority, but my favorite of the three is the German D. I am participating in the Tchaikovsky recital and I recorded my piece with both Ivory II American D and Ivory II German D. For that particular song, the German D seems to shine.

I can see American D as being very versatile. It has great resonance and a nice tone. I wouldn't describe it as either silvery or golden. (I would describe German D as silvery though.) The American D seems like it would be really good for jazz.

Galaxy Vintage D is my least favorite sounding but I have to admit I enjoy playing it sometimes!

Bottom line: I think you will be happy purchasing and using Ivory II American D and I think it is well worth the money.

I, too, am watching how the Truekeys pianos turn out. I'm not quite sold on them yet.

I have seven or eight other software sampled pianos and they are, in my view, second tier compared to Ivory II.

I have Ivory II American D, Ivory II Grand Pianos (w/German D) and Galaxy Vintage D.

I appear to be in the minority, but my favorite of the three is the German D. I am participating in the Tchaikovsky recital and I recorded my piece with both Ivory II American D and Ivory II German D. For that particular song, the German D seems to shine.

I can see American D as being very versatile. It has great resonance and a nice tone. I wouldn't describe it as either silvery or golden. (I would describe German D as silvery though.) The American D seems like it would be really good for jazz.

Galaxy Vintage D is my least favorite sounding but I have to admit I enjoy playing it sometimes!

Bottom line: I think you will be happy purchasing and using Ivory II American D and I think it is well worth the money.

I, too, am watching how the Truekeys pianos turn out. I'm not quite sold on them yet.

I have seven or eight other software sampled pianos and they are, in my view, second tier compared to Ivory II.