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Wow MaryAnna, I'm impressed! I will definitely be picking up a copy of one of your books asap.

As far as if Liszt was the greatest pianist of all time...whos to say as we have no recordings. But Busoni was no lightweight and he heard Liszt play calling him the greatest.
And let's not forget the quote by Chopin (I don't have the exact quote in front of me) . It was from a letter to someone (Sand?) in which he says that Liszt is over visiting and is playing my Etudes and then something like "If I could only play like that..."

We all need our heros and I like to think of Liszt as the greatest.

Now if only his ghost could come over and help me learn the fast parts of this nocturne!!!

Chopin said that he wishes he could only play like Liszt?

Why does that... not seem right?

"I wish I could steal his way of playing my etudes." Liszt was supposedly the only person who ever played them from sight. That's why Chopin dedicated them to Liszt. I think it was more a reference to Lizst's stamina than technique. Because of his various pulmonary difficulties Chopin tired very quickly even when he wasn't acutely ill.

I look at the title of 'Greatest Pianist of all Time' as more honorary than literal. Liszt is certainly worthy of the title. He raised the stakes in terms of what was expected of a pianist's technique and he definately elevated the entertainment value of solo piano recitals. But, I really doubt that there is a single 'Greatest' - there are just too many variables upon which to make subjective judgements. When discussing Liszt w/students I say that Liszt is CREDITED w/being the greatest pianist of all time, but then I go on to discuss why such an absolute designation is problematic. Acknowledging the fallacy of thinking in absolute terms in no way detracts from Liszt's greatness - he was a titan whose influence is w/us today - but, I hope that such a discussion will help students to realise that when speaking of music and musicians there is no black and white.

Robertp, please don't feel nervous. You're welcome to come in and discuss Chopin or potato salad or ovens anytime.

BTW We're hanging Cousin Fred tomorrow. Pictures later.

not on topic

To all the Nocturnites:

(Ah, I just thought that we should have as our logo...a moon half hidden by night-time clouds).

I haven't heard much from anyone. You're probably all finished. If so, I'm coming to your house and either pat you on the back or beg you to come and live with me so I can get the benefit of your expertise and knowledge. Or I could just come over and beat you up.

Thanks to Cousin Fred, the first page and a half are basically repetitive in nature. So, other than the grace notes and trills (Frycek, I did read that Chopin wasn't that concerned about the speed of the trills as he was about their evenness. I know you mentioned this.) This comes as good news/bad news to me. I find it easier to do fast than to do even. So I need to practice slowing down.

I'm at the piu mosso (would someone tell me what this means). Tomorrow I will spend the whole day getting everything before this as perfect as I can.

Monday, I start on the "storm and thunder." Sorry, I'm still reeling from the Db prelude.

I know I'm going to need lots of help on this section and to the end. But I'm willing to do whatever it takes to play it. It's glorious!!

I practiced 4.5 hours today. I wish I could devote all those hours to the nocturne. But I have about 10 other pieces I have to keep current. If I don't play them everyday or, at least, every other day, I'll lose them.

Signing off,
Kathleen

Hi, Kathleen,

I've been working on the nocturne, but have had no startling revelations for the group, other than it's gonna take me awhile.

But I do know what piu mosso means--more motion. In other words, faster. Sigh. On my recording, Ohlsson takes piu mosso *way* too seriously.

A Cousin of Cousin Fred

This gent is Włodzimierz Krzyżanowski and Fredryck Chopin's first cousin, a son of Chopin's maternal uncle. He was a brigader general in the Union Army. Check out the link. As you can see from the backwards date (1867) in the upper right hand corner, the negative has been reversed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wlodzimierz_Krzyzanowski

Was Civil War Cousin at all musical? Who knows? Chopin's mother, Justyna was the original piano player in Chopin's family and it's not unlikely that her brother and his son might also have played. One curious thing about Chopin's nuclear family was how isolated they appeared to have been. Chopin's father Mikolay (Nicholas) never had any contact with the family he'd left in France after he went to Poland at sixteen. (Why he did that is a puzzlement in itself.) Chopin thought his surname so unusual that he once grabbed an unfamiliar book off a bookseller's shelf when he saw the name, thinking there was another Chopin out there, only to find it was a recently published copy of one of his own works. He was never aware that he had aunts and cousins living in France the whole time he lived there. There no mention in his letters of any relatives on his mother's side either. The Civil War Cousin seems to have been a late born son of Justyna's younger brother. Chopin had been gone from Poland about three years when the cousin was born and it's quite certain they never met. Did Chopin even know of his existence? Who knows? Probably not.

Cousin Fred

1829 19 years old - still in Poland -wearing a cloak that looks much too large for him



October 17, 1849, deathbed sketch

Cousin Fred looks mighty spiffy up against your gorgeous wallpaper. I also love your Chinese dogs. I'll have to meditate on whether the deathbed sketch would be too sad for me to live with, but as a work of art, it's very delicate and pretty.

It's a weird quirk of the Internet that I look at the picture of Chopin in his youth and immediately think of you. But now you've changed your avatar and confused me. I have a plan to change mine, but I just need to make it so...

To Robertp- I took your advice and started working on the triplets near m. 44. Thank you for the advice. I am nearly done page 1. Piano does take a lot of slow practice and it can sometimes be tedious. I find I need to work all the fingerings out, find the best and then stick with the fingerings- if I "force" my fingers to follow the same pattern every time, I do much better. I also struggle with getting the timing just right with the ornaments in m.15- especially that 5-note thingie in the right hand on the last note-If it were 4 or 6, ...well the odd numbers throw me.

Frycek: Thank you for sharing those great prints. (Aside..Aren't you suppose to be resting?)

Where do you get them? I'm putting my office back together (after being at the end of the couch for 8 months) and I would love to dedicate the whole room to him. Instead of my office, it will be "The Chopin Room" or "Fred's Room." Whatever. The largest pictures I have are the ones I can print off the Internet. So pretty please. Tell me where you purchased them. I've already bought a rather elegant bookcase for my expanding library of books about him. And I do have my Clavinova in there. All I need now are some nice-sized paintings/prints of him and some of his original music. Then, later some collector items, perhaps a bust or a plaster cast of his hands (I know you have one).

MaryAnna: I meant to tell you that when you mentioned you were in Ft. Myers for a signing, that we have a time-share condo in Ft.Myers Beach. My husband goes down every winter. I usually stay at home. I don't like to put my dog in a kennel for that long. Plus I'm sick for FL. We've been going down there (sometimes 2-3 times a year) for 40 years.

qtpi: I totally agree about the fingering. I wrote it out for the first section but not for the repetition, thinking I would remember. Well, I didn't, so I had to write all the fingering in again and again and again.... The timing of the ornamentation will come, eventually. After you do it about a thousand times! No, just kidding. But it does take several hours.

I remember thinking (when learning the A minor waltz...it has several sections that are doozies) "There is just no way I'll never get this. It's too hard. I don't have the skills." And now everyday when I play it through and play those difficult sections, I have to smile remembering how certain I was that I'd never be able to manage it.

This nocture is certainly much more difficult than that waltz. However, it is so beautiful and so impressive, I'm willing to take do what it takes to learn it.

I remember writing something like this before. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself. I think I do it to give myself some encouragement also.

Now I have to post my hours before I forget again. The Dudes are in the lead!

Kathleen

MARYANNA:

HELP!! We need you as a chick. The dudes have picked up another member. Even if you can't practice everyday, it doesn't matter. We know you play beautifully, so please join the Chicks in our gender battle.

If you say yes, I'll give you the info you need to log on.

Please,
Kathleen

Regarding where I got them. The large portrait on canvas came from the link below. They can make practically anything for you but they are pricey. (Very). The death bed sketch is an old print that probably came out shortly after Chopin died. It's hand colored. I got it for $5 on ebay. Aside for the image itself it was in rough shape. Those mats are covering some very tattered corners. Ebay is a good place to look for Chopin memorabilia. I've also got that large print of "The Death of Chopin" (where Delpine Potocka is standing singing at the piano inexplicably dressed like an ancient Greek) but I haven't figured out just how or where I will use it.

http://www.lebrecht.co.uk/

$5 for a print that old? What a find! Okay, if I got something that cool, I'd get over the deathbed thing, because it's very pretty. And it sounds like you managed some nicely creative framing, too.

Do you know whether or not Delpine Potocka really sang at his funeral in Greek dress? I know there was a rage for everything Grecian sometime in the 19th century, but my chronology is poor, so I don't remember when. Women even stood around in an affected pose called the "Grecian bend." For some reason, I associate that fashion with Jane Austen, who I think was a little before Chopin.

I've only been to Fort Myers a couple of times, Kathleen, but I enjoyed it. It seems more unspoiled than most of south Florida.

As for logging in my practice time...well, that would require me to be more organized than I typically am. I tend to drift by the piano several times a day, plop down, and play awhile, so I have no idea how long I practice. And there's no clock in my music room and I only wear a watch when I'm going out. (I was born to work at home, as you can see.) But go ahead and give me the login information and I'll try to be more aware of the time I spend at the piano.

Delpine Potocka came and sang for him a couple of days before he died. At least she tried to. He was so overcome he started coughing and she had to stop. This print I'm talking about is a very sentimental Victorian thing from the 1890's (I think). I shows everyone (including a nun!) crowded around his bed and Delphine, very improbably attired, standing up at a piano singing her heart out. Chopin himself would've probably found it hilarious.

I hope you don't mind my barging into this group, but I just heard a recording of the "Raindrop" on the Web by a student that's quite nice. If this link doesn't take you directly to the recordings, find it on the left.

http://www.mtm-piano.tk/

No barging in around here. Everyone is welcome.

I listened to Mark's rendition of the Raindrop. Very nice, indeed. He takes it a tad on the slow side, which is fine...it's a massive undertaking in many parts. He uses lots of rubato also. Again, not a bad thing.

What a fine pianist he is.

Thanks for sharing.

Kathleen