Hi all,

As an excited new owner of a soon-to-be-delivered CA79, and a long-time owner (but not recent user) of forScore, I have a question.

In getting reacquainted with forScore, I'm noting several options for page turns. There are specialized devices (foot pedals of various sorts) and generic Bluetooth device options.

An "extra" set of foot pedals doesn't seem ideal for a piano. Bluetooth could work. However, I did read that MIDI signals could also be used.

Does anyone use, or know, if some MIDI signal from the Kawai can be used for page turns? Such as the sostenuto pedal, or a particular key or something? Just trying to plan for some options.

I don't know how to interface with For Score. But I've used the piano pedals to turn pages on a PC displaying PDF sheet music.

All I needed was Bomes MIDI Translator for Windows. I configured it to use the una corda pedal to turn pages ... but you could do many more exotic things if you wish. The old version of Bomes is available for free.

But Bomes won't run on Apple, so it won't work with For Score.

Well that's interesting... what PDF software did you use for sheet music? I'm assuming that the Bomes MIDI Translator turned MIDI signals into a keyboard-like device.

I'm in technology for a day job, so I've got things around for all platforms.

Exactly ...That's one of its functions. (But there are lots more.)

I use PDF-XChange Viewer. I really like it. Kawai James recommended it years ago. It's far better than Adobe.

But I think most any PDF viewer will do. It only needs to accept the page-down and page-up keystrokes to turn the page.

forScore has a built in page turner. It requires a Pro subscription ($9.99/year) and a newer iPad which uses facial recognition technology (no home button) but it works brilliantly!

I have mine set to recognize when I twitch my lips to the right (forwards) or to the left (backwards). There is a slider to adjust the sensitivity, as well as a calibration button.

I’ve been using this for months now and just love it. It’s simple, reliable, and doesn’t require a separate device like a foot pedal.

When I showed this feature to my teacher, who also uses forScore, she couldn’t believe it. She asked how I was turning the pages. I laughed and told her it’s magic.

[quote[newer iPad which uses facial recognition technology[/quote]
I wonder if there is a similar application for a PC? Everything I see might be limited to logons.

o KeyLemon
o TrueKey
o Rohos
o Blink!
o AMD Face Login

I don't have the forScore app, however assuming it can be configured to turn pages using MIDI CC# numbers, it should be possible to connect to the CA79 via Bluetooth MIDI, then define the soft/sostenuto pedals as back/forward.

Of course, this would also mean that the pages would turn whenever you're required to press those pedals when playing a piece.

Kawai's "PiaBookPlayer" app (to show lesson song scores) allows pages to be turned by double-tapping the soft or sostenuto pedal. I expect this option may be available in forScore also.

Kind regards,
James
x

The forScore face gestures sound like a great idea, but I can’t seem to get it to work right. It ends up turning pages when I don’t want them to, and not turning them when I want them to. Maybe I need to do some further calibration and practice.

Well you both give me hope for the situation. And now I'm torn again... I have 2 iPads which I can use with forScore for dual page display. I'd need a MIDI action for page turns, which I understand from you guys should be easy to set up.

But a larger PC display (heck I can even get a 21" touchscreen monitor for not that much, paired with a NUC or other laptop) and this software that TripleMac mentions is also attractive since everything is in PDF format anyway! A PC+monitor is much less expensive than an iPad!

Thanks everyone... I'll try some options and let you know how it goes! Once the CA79 gets here... soon... veerry soon!

Have you tried resetting the calibration button and adjusting the sensitivity slider? If you play with it a while you should be able to dial it in so that it works extremely well.

PM me if you have any questions and I’ll try and help if I can.

In another thread, I saw mention of a software I used long ago and forgot about - MobileSheets and MobileSheets Pro. It is kind of like forScore, but runs on Android and Windows.

So I will experiment with both ecosystems:

• forScore + Apple products; Bluetooth page turner vs MIDI page turn signal; 2 iPads for left/right page viewing. (I have older iPads so no face gestures are available)
• MobileSheets for Windows 10 on a laptop or large-format (21") touchscreen monitor; Bluetooth page turner vs MIDI page turn signal using the "Bomes MIDI Translator" software TripleMac mentioned.

Aesthetic is also important... so evaluating which solution will have the fewest wires running to and fro will be important. Since my iPads are older, I will want to have them plugged in during use. I have even looked into charging stands at this point just to see what is available.

On the other hand, monitors aren't designed to rest on a music desk, so weight (or weight distribution) could be an issue for stability or usability. And what works will vary on various models of DPs depending on their music desk or height, etc.

Bonus for those people of means! I saw a suggestion in another thread for one of these large-format E-Ink tablets which run Android - search online for BOOX Max3 13.3 inch E-Reader. It runs Android 9, and should probably run MobileSheets/MobileSheets Pro. At a steep $850/per (and, in my ideal world, I'd have one for the left and one for the right pages), it's out of my reach for the time being. I guess I could win the lottery...??

There is also Musicreader.net software to try out. Runs on Windows 10, Android, Chromebook, IOS too. You should add it to your list to at least try out.

Also there is https://powermusicsoftware.com/ which is on sale at the moment for not much money. You can demo that one also.

Wow EPW, those are interesting options!!

The Musicreader.net site isn't the greatest, but with specialized software I've learned not to judge the book by its cover! It seems much more flexible than any of these others, in that there is an online library that synchronizes between the different devices you might be using. So the library can follow you around, it looks like.

PowerMusic seems to be not as flexible as the others, nor as modern looking (probably using an older .Net or MFC library). But function is what we're after! It seems much more useful for specific use cases, like combining a score with a chord chart for example. I can see that being useful.

I'm very curious to try MusicReader especially.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Thanks for the offer! I'll fiddle with it a bit more and see if I can make some progress. I'm loving forScore with two 12.9" iPad pros. The dual page view/turning is very seamless.

Yep. Musicreader took a long time to come out from what was called version 4. Yes the program website is not the best I have to agree from a wow standpoint. But the inner working of the program has been reliable for me. I also have MobileSheeps windows version too just in case. I always liked Musicreader for the way it handles two pages on a monitor. I have very bad eyesight.

I have been able to send music using a unique email that Musicreader gives each user for my account for syncing. Has worked really well. I used my phone with Microsoft Lens to make a PDF of some church music I was missing. Sent it off to my special email address and it was up on my account to sync. When I got home I opened Musicreader on my desktop and shortly after my music was there to add to a new playlist for church. I volunteer as extra keyboard player.

Musicreader is developed in the Netherlands and this new version they have relied on a lot of little videos just showing you how to operate the program. Don't be put off by that. Marco, the lead developer has been working on this software for over 15 years. English is not the companies native language but I never had a problem communicating with the company. I was on the Beta testing team for this version. I was accepted when the program was in later stage of development but still found a few minor bugs and also wanted something added. He asked why I needed what I wanted, I explained in detail why I could use what I wanted with my poor eyesight and a few days later he had a prototype for me to try.

Not trying to convince you which way to go as we all have different needs but I have been impressed by the company after all these years. YMMV

Have you considered using a traditional automatic page turner?

Well they certainly sound impressive and responsive! Sounds like they spend their time on development (where it counts) instead of marketing and a slick website! I will definitely give it a try. I do like the sync aspect, which is something the others seem to be lacking.

@TripleMac - that page automatic page turner is a bit out of my prince range!!

I have CA99 and if you connect piano to ipad/iphone/mac via USB Midi or Bluetooth midi you can use any pedal for page turns.

I have been using Power Music Essentials on a Surface Book. I, too, have avoided adding another pedal. The idea of using the sostenuto pedal on my CA98 is intriguing. The manual states:

"Transmit/receive sustain, sostenuto and soft pedal data to/from a MIDI-connected musical instrument or device."

So it sounds like it will support page turning. But I cannot find any additional information in the manual describing how to use it. Any suggestions?

Just a follow-up. This thread prompted me to configure the Sostenuto pedal with MIDI bluetooth on my CA98 for 2-3 weeks now. It is working very well with no extra clutter.

I didn't want to add another pedal floating around on the floor so using a pedal on the DP that many of us never use seemed like a good option. I have a Microsoft Book with a 7.5" x 11.25" screen so the score pages are full size. They are much less expensive than an iPad Pro and can be found used on eBay starting at $150 (I paid about $200 for mine and it is in as-new condition). As suggested by MMM I am using MIDIberry and Bome's MIDI Translator to convert the MIDI bluetooth from the DP to PgDn for the display. I am using Power Music Essentials (free) to display the PDF files but any PDF or document viewer (e.g. Word) should work.

If anyone want the step-by-step to get this working PM me.

This comment here may have just sold me on using an Ipad Pro and forScore. I've been wanting to get a tablet to replace all the sheet music piled around me, and debating between forScore and MobileSheets. I don't think MobileSheets can do this?

Not that I'm aware of. But....I can't believe this feature is a subscription service. That's quite a money grab. Could they not just make it a one-time in-app purchase or something?

I'm currently using Mobilesheets with a Chromebook tablet, and it's SO full featured. I don't know what forScore supports, but the feature set and customizabilty of MobileSheets pro is incredible.

I use a BT keyboard for my foot pedal (don't laugh) and I have multiple zones programmed for "page forward, page page, jump to beginning, jump to library", I can crop sheet by sheet, I can set where on on the screen the letter/pillarboxes appear and what color they are, I can make all kinds of annotations with a stylus, including edit notes and measures, I can sync between two devices to span multiple pages, link to audio performances....I even loaded up a Harry Potter book onto it so my daughter could have a makeshift e-reader last year I feel like just using it as a basic page turner is just scratching the surface.

I've often thought about picking up a refurb iPad Pro 12.8 just for the larger screen size, but having to switch my library over from MobileSheets is really holding me back.

Good point, I don't know what else the pro version provides with the monthly service. I'd have to see if I'd actually make use of it. I do like the idea of using face gestures to turn the page.

I'm not opposed to MobileSheets. I'd prefer a device with the largest screen size. How about an widescreen touchscreen lcd slab that I can connect to a PC? I've considered that route as well, and use MobileSheets.

I was at Micro-Center store and they had a 32 inch touch screen monitor. I thought heck that would be nice to use sheet music. No excuse you can't read the music. Seriously if you have a 2n1 laptop you could mirror the screen to a large LED monitor and use the 2n1 to turn pages instead of a large touchscreen monitor.

I’m very tempted by the new super thin iMac, no stand, simple pop it on the piano music stand. I’ve not found a similar sized monitor that thin.

forScore Pro

How would you power it?

Meh. Pop up menus, copy and paste...more stamps.

Even the cloud sync feature is to icloud, which costs them nothing.

Mobilesheets natively supports Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive and more,no subscription needed.

Sorry, not meaning to crap on forScore, I just think this it seems like abuse of the subscription model.

I’d just like to point out that it’s $9.99 per YEAR, not per month. Still a money grab, I agree, but it’s much more digestible. I may do that, but all my iDevices don’t support FaceId yet. Maybe down the road then. Meanwhile I still print the PDFs…

Personally, I don't use the Pro version. I just shared the link, since the person was interested in the capabilities and conditions of the Pro version.

The only thing I might need in the Pro version is additional stamps in the form of musical symbols. But I myself made all the additional and necessary symbols in Sibelius program on PC, and then imported them into forScore. And they look even better than the standard stamps in forScore, since their style is completely identical to the style in Sibelius, in which I create all my sheet music, which then go to forScore.

As for turning pages with the help of facial gestures, for me personally, this is not serious fun. Especially when you perform in front of people. There is nothing better than a Bluetooth pedal. Even just for myself, it's more convenient for me than constantly grimacing.

For me, forScore is the best solution even in the regular version without a subscription. I love this program so much that I don't even want to hear about anything else. It was for this application alone that I once bought an iPad Pro — my first Apple device (I started studying this application long before buying an iPad). And the iPad Pro 12.9" itself is still the best hardware solution for working with sheet music. In principle, I do not consider big monitors connected to a computer, since my sheet music should always be with me, not just at home. And I am not going to go on stage with a big monitor etc.

All in all, iPad Pro 12.9" and forScore is still the best and ultimate solution for musicians working with sheet music. This combination has long become the standard for the vast majority of musicians working with digital sheet music.

I was either going to use a hamster running in a wheel attached to a small generator hidden behind the music stand or possibly the supplied external power supply.

I get the point of course and it’s a shame there isn’t a super sized iPad yet which shows 2 pages and isn’t silly money, but compared with sticking a 32” monitor which needs power and data I guess, a 11mm thick iMac is for me at least an interesting solution.

I, too, am not fond of the subscription model.For a newspaper or magazine: a subscription gets you new material periodically. You pay to get new stuff.

For software: a subscription gets you corrections to the defects the manufacturer created. You pay for their mistakes.

Recently, more and more services and products are becoming subscription-based. It's good that at least some of them still provide a choice for that. Personally, to this day, I do not have a single subscription to any software, service or other product (not counting the regular payment for the Internet itself).

Once upon a time (2017) I bought forScore for $10. And the capabilities of the basic version are quite enough for me, in the Pro version there is nothing important and necessary for me. I don't need any help from the developer, as I know this application thoroughly. On the contrary, I have repeatedly helped the developers fix some bugs and gave ideas for further improving the application. Although I know many people who also do not need additional features, they simply purchase a Pro subscription to support the developer, as they love and appreciate this application too much.

The Apple route sounds appealing, although I don't live in that space. I started with Android long ago, and a few years ago tried an iPhone for a few months, but went back to Android. Not the Apple was bad, but it wasn't significantly different or better than Android. You can do the same stuff on either phone.

But my fiance is an Apple person and so we could get some use out of the iPad for other reasons. A Samsung S7+ could do, but I wonder if the screen is too small. I could also go with a Surface X at 13 inches. But I think I read somewhere that MobileSheets has some stability issues with the X and Windows 10 on ARM?

Or just get a surface pro 7 😀

I have an S7+, and it works fine for Mobilesheets, but I don't use it for that purpose; personally I think the widescreen tablets aren't as useful as the 4:3 iPad Pro form factor. My Pixel Slate is a bit less wide too, which I like better.

If I wasn't using Mobilesheets, I'd probably jump on the iPad Pro + forScore wagon. A few of the things that would probably annoy me however, are:
1) charging port at the bottom (my tablet permanently lives on my piano music rest, so the Slate's top-mounted USB-C charging port is ideal)
2) Mobilesheet's ability to map any physical keyboard key to a function, does forScore allow this?

@Gombessa You might be getting your Ipad Pro when Mobilesheet's releases the iPad version

I do have to agree that the 16:9 screens are not the best but have to make do myself with what I have at the moment.

Me too. Moreover, I once convinced several of my friends to switch from iPhone to Android (in the days of the iPhone 4S etc).

Owning an iPad in no way implies mandatory ownership of an iPhone. Even many Android users admit that Apple is the clear leader and the best choice among tablets (unless we are talking about the task of replacing a full-fledged computer with a tablet). I know a bunch of people who have an Android smartphone and an iPad.

And I do not divide my life into spaces, but simply acquire what is best suited for my tasks. It's much easier to live this way. I have always used and continue to use Windows PC and do not like macOS and MacBooks as hardware. I am a long-time Android user (although I also use an iPhone, Apple Watch, etc). But a few years ago, I was very seriously studying the topic of switching from paper sheets to digital ones. And, like many, I came to the conclusion that an iPad Pro 12.9" and forScore are the best option.

I did not quite understand this moment. I often use my iPad on the music rest while the iPad is charging. I just turn the iPad upside down and the connector is on top.

Does everything work with the iPad upside down? Eg homescreens, remote desktop/screen share apps, charging the pencil? If so then yeah that's not a problem my vague recollection is that there are some restrictions to using the tablet upside down as it tries to force you into the "correct" orientation sometimes.

There is no problem with that. Everything works as usual. Even Face ID, unlike iPhones, works in any orientation on iPad Pro. Some people even forget that they hold/keep an iPad upside down, and that's even on models that had a physical button at the bottom. Here is one such example:

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think we're learning towards the Ipad

If you can afford one they seem like the way to go.

And in our business, it is not necessary to purchase a new model at all. For example, the refurbished version of the 2018 model is officially sold on Apple's website for $629. I myself still use the 2017 model (2nd gen), the one with the button and thick frames. Everything suits me. The only reason that will make me upgrade is an iPad with an even larger screen (by the way, even in the picture in that article, you can see the forScore icon). (:

That would be a game changer TBH my tablet is on its last legs, My kid dropped it and the battery either broke or disconnected from the main board so it must be plugged in 100% of the time like a desktop PC (which is why I can spare using it as a dedicated music sheet). Mobilesheets integration on iOS would be awesome. But it seems like it's not cing anytime soon:


Yep, that's what I've been eyeing. The 2018-2020 refurbs or used models + apple pencil. Expensive but I could stomach it. I just don't want to switch my entire library with page stylings and annotations from Mobilesheets.

I've been using an iPad Pro 12.9" + forScore + PageFlip Cicada Bluetooth foot pedal for ages now. Great combination.

No 2018 64GB refurbs on that site, sold out. What memory size tablets do you use?

We stopped by BestBuy yesterday and looked at the iPad. I wish it was bigger! What I really want is the LCD slab from a Surface Studio, and mount that to the front of the piano. Where can I a buy a custom touch screen lcd slab?!?

1) On that site, everything is the same, nothing is sold out. Perhaps you were opening a local version of the site, etc.

2) Just in case, I note that forScore can work in the Dual Page Mode (two iPads next to each other). Video example.

Yea, that's weird. It shows up as out of stock in my area. I might make a trip to the local Apple store today.

Sneak Peek: forScore 13

forScore 13

Thanks!

Update, we caved and got the Ipad. All I can say is that I should have done this sooner. No more pencil erasings ;0 This is definitely a cleaner setup. forScore is really nice, looking forward to the next version.

Thanks so much for pointing this out, JJ. I've been using forScore for years with an iPad Pro and an AirTurn pedal, and didn't think that things could get any better than that. I wasn't aware that my new iPad supported this system until I read your post.

A couple of days ago I subscribed (I was happy to make a contribution to a great team of developers even if I decided I preferred the pedal after all), and tried it out. It's brilliant!

I'm giving up the foot pedal - it was a nuisance anyway when I wanted to use the una corda pedal and ran out of feet.

I am enjoying the IPad Pro, but this could have been a contender for me.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...a-flagship-android-tablet-for-610/?amp=1

For me personally, other tablets, if their screen size is no larger than that of the 12.9-inch iPad Pro, are not of interest. But this is already more interesting. I hope this will push Apple to release a larger iPad with a screen with proportions of 3:2 (after all, 4:3 is quite "square" for sheet music).

A 14.6" display is still a bit small unless you want to only use it in portrait mode. I have a 15" surface book which has a 3:2 screen. In landscape I can display two pages at the same time, but they are smaller than a sheet of letter sized paper. If you don't need a touch screen, then a computer monitor works better.

Yes, like most iPad users, I use it in portrait orientation. The 12.9-inch iPad is already OK, but everything that will be bigger, I will not call it "still small" in any way. This will be perfect for me. Using a Bluetooth pedal, I have no problem paging the iPad in portrait orientation.

I once considered the Surface Book, but despite being a Windows user, I chose the iPad for a number of reasons.


In my earlier post here, I wrote about this:

This discussion had me thinking: Why do I suffer with on-screen sheet music that comes up too small?

The cause is my 24" monitor on the piano. It's plenty wide but only 12" tall.

But it turns out that this Dell monitor can rotate on its stand.
Perhaps that's because this is a business monitor, not a cheapo home monitor. (It was a cast-off from a previous job.)
So no special rigging was required.

I rotated it into portrait configuration, changed the Windows settings, and voila! My sheet music can be tall enough to be readable even by these aging eyes. Sweet.

I enjoy forScore the more I use it. I decided to try the Pro version and using facial gestures to turn the pages works very well!

I’ve just donated my AirTurn to the local Youth Orchestra - I LOVE the facial recognition facility.

Initially I struck what I thought was a calibration problem: page turning was 100% accurate with my little ES110, but not as reliable with my grand. As I’m not very tall, I wondered whether the higher position of the C3’s music desk had anything to do with the camera’s line of sight. Sure enough, when I turned the iPad upside-down, so that the camera is at the bottom, it worked flawlessly. Thanks, forScore!