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Posted By: newbert Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/20/19 08:48 PM
After getting great feedback about arranger keyboards in another thread, I've decided to look for a Roland BK-7M module instead, and use it with my Dexibell P3.

The BK-7M has "traditional" DIN5 MIDI ports while the P3 only has ports marked:

a) USB "Memory" (shaped like USB on a computer), and
b) USB "Computer" (shaped like a USB port on a printer).

Assuming I can connect the BK-7M to the keyboard --

1. Which port on the P3 (a or b above) do I use?, and
2. Would a cable like this one work?

Thanks!
Posted By: toddy Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/20/19 09:16 PM
You would still need a computer though. You would connect the P3 to the computer as you would a printer, and then the Roland would also connect to the computer using a midi to USB cable like the one you linked to in your post above.

Otherwise you could experiment cutting out the computer by getting one of these as was pointed out before:

https://kentonuk.com/product/midi-usb-host-mkii/
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/20/19 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by newbert
After getting great feedback about arranger keyboards in another thread, I've decided to look for a Roland BK-7M module instead, and use it with my Dexibell P3.

The BK-7M has "traditional" DIN5 MIDI ports while the P3 only has ports marked:

a) USB "Memory" (shaped like USB on a computer), and
b) USB "Computer" (shaped like a USB port on a printer).

Assuming I can connect the BK-7M to the keyboard --

1. Which port on the P3 (a or b above) do I use?, and
2. Would a cable like this one work?

Thanks!


Definitely not b).

I would say a) neither but I recall seeing a post above mentioning Dexibell is adding host support to this USB Memory port. Your best bet is asking directly to Dexibell tech support.

About the adapter work, it depends on the answer to b). However, I have seen several people complaining about these cheap USB-MIDI converters not working very well (or at all).
Posted By: toddy Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 10:48 AM
It appears the rumour EVC2017 read about is true. This means you can use an ordinary USB cable (an A to B, usually known as a printer cable) to connect the P3 to other devices such as keyboards and modules. This is new technology which expands the normal functioning of USB significantly.

Just plug the rectangular end of printer cable into the P3 and the square end into the other device - Roland module in this case.

But the bulletin says you need the new operating system called AquaViva - which is version OS 4.00 (and presumably anything higher). They say:

"With the new OS AQUAVIVA your DEXIBELL keyboard becomes a master
(host). You can connect other keyboards or modules from any brand
directly to the DEXIBELL USB “Memory” port and exchange MIDI data
without a computer and without using two MIDI cables.
The connection consists of the following main components:
t A Host DEXIBELL keyboard equiped with the OS 4.00 AQUAVIVA.
t One slave MIDI USB Devices as a keyboards.
t A physical bus represented by the USB cable that links the devices
with the host.
USB cable AgB-type"
Posted By: toddy Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 10:57 AM
Before you actually buy the new module, you can test whether this new Dexibel-as-host system works by connecting your existing second keyboard up in the way described above using a simple USB printer cable. It will be interesting to hear if it works - they do claim it will work for any type or brand fitted with USB 'b' , which includes your PSR-s775.

Good luck!
Posted By: newbert Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by toddy
Before you actually buy the new module, you can test whether this new Dexibel-as-host system works by connecting your existing second keyboard up in the way described above using a simple USB printer cable. It will be interesting to hear if it works - they do claim it will work for any type or brand fitted with USB 'b' , which includes your PSR-s775.

Good luck!


Hmmm...... Bad timing, I'm afraid. The PSR-s775 has already been packed up and shipped off for refund. Great idea though.

Thanks!
Posted By: toddy Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by newbert


Hmmm...... Bad timing, I'm afraid. The PSR-s775 has already been packed up and shipped off for refund. Great idea though.

Thanks!



Oh dear. That's unfortunate. Just as a matter of interest, what was wrong with the PSRs775?
Originally Posted by toddy
they do claim it will work for any type or brand fitted with USB 'b' , which includes your PSR-s775.

Good luck!

I haven’t read such a thing. And it will be wrong since many USB-MIDI devices demands a driver, and such a driver are generally only available for Windows and MacOS.

A USB Class Compliant restriction would be more expected. (The manual doesn’t even pretend it is possible).
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by toddy
It appears the rumour EVC2017 read about is true. This means you can use an ordinary USB cable (an A to B, usually known as a printer cable) to connect the P3 to other devices such as keyboards and modules. This is new technology which expands the normal functioning of USB significantly.


I brought this feature up in the prior MIDI thread by newbert (http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...al-midi-question-or-two.html#Post2881144)--Dexibell brought some great news innovations with the release of their new Aquaviva OS (and of course the headroom built into the CPU/SOC of their hardware). Hopefully we see the traditional large manufacturers follow suit (or even better, take the initiative in introducing new features l meaningful features).
Dexibell acting as a USB host is not a "rumour". It's something that Dexibell themselves have talked about. But you need a recent firmware update.

And -- as usual -- PianoManChuck has demonstrated it: https://youtu.be/hCIp7D3FsMY?t=98

(Though that's actually the inverted case as here: The module is the host and the keyboard is the peripheral. In this case the keyboard would be the host and the module the peripheral. But MIDI works both directions.)

Additionally the Roland BK module has a USB socket saying "COMPUTER (reception and transmission of MIDI data)".

So, a regular USB "printer cable" could hook those two devices together MIDI wise.

And then the usual "However...(!!!)": Then the audio would go from the BK to the P3 via a regular analog audio cable. Would this (those two connections together) possibly result in a ground loop producing mains hum?

The "legacy MIDI" has optoisolation supposedly, so if the BK optically isolates its MIDI ports then a USB-MIDI adapter could be a better option, if there's any ground loop issue.

As long as it's a "USB class compliant" (i.e. driverless) adapter the Dexibell should be happy with it. It doesn't know or care is it a full USB-MIDI keyboard or just an adapter pretending to be a one.

...I'd assume. And the usual "whatdoiknow". smile

But I'm sure Dexibell and Roland know their own products, so if we here don't know then they will.
Posted By: toddy Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by toddy
they do claim it will work for any type or brand fitted with USB 'b' , which includes your PSR-s775.

Good luck!

I haven’t read such a thing. And it will be wrong since many USB-MIDI devices demands a driver, and such a driver are generally only available for Windows and MacOS.

A USB Class Compliant restriction would be more expected. (The manual doesn’t even pretend it is possible).


This is quoted from Dexibell's user guide:

Quote
You can connect other keyboards or modules from any brand
directly to the DEXIBELL USB “Memory” port and exchange MIDI data
without a computer and without using two MIDI cables.


....even so I would like to test it before buying equipment based on that claim, which is what I urged newbert to do if possible.
Posted By: newbert Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by newbert


Hmmm...... Bad timing, I'm afraid. The PSR-s775 has already been packed up and shipped off for refund. Great idea though.

Thanks!



Oh dear. That's unfortunate. Just as a matter of interest, what was wrong with the PSRs775?


It turns out that I absolutely hated the feel of the keys and action. And I'm usually not that picky.
Posted By: newbert Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by toddy
Before you actually buy the new module, you can test whether this new Dexibel-as-host system works by connecting your existing second keyboard up in the way described above using a simple USB printer cable. It will be interesting to hear if it works - they do claim it will work for any type or brand fitted with USB 'b' , which includes your PSR-s775.

Good luck!


Not that it matters anymore, since I've returned the Yamaha keyboard , but it turns out that the Dexibell (with AquaVIVO 4 OS and above) does support audio over USB MIDI.

I've connected my iPad via USB MIDI to Lightning connector and don't need an audio cable for the sound to be routed thru the Dexibell. Pretty slick! Now I'm exploring using Dexibell's "XMURE" app to use my iPad as an arranger module. So, I may not look for a BK-m7 after all and save some big $$$!!!! smile
You'll save even more by not buying an even more expensive arranger module from Ketron. wink

But of course if you only need to save a little, then not buying the BK-7M is a perfectly valid option too.
Posted By: toddy Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by newbert
Originally Posted by toddy
Before you actually buy the new module, you can test whether this new Dexibel-as-host system works by connecting your existing second keyboard up in the way described above using a simple USB printer cable. It will be interesting to hear if it works - they do claim it will work for any type or brand fitted with USB 'b' , which includes your PSR-s775.

Good luck!


Not that it matters anymore, since I've returned the Yamaha keyboard , but it turns out that the Dexibell (with AquaVIVO 4 OS and above) does support audio over USB MIDI.

I've connected my iPad via USB MIDI to Lightning connector and don't need an audio cable for the sound to be routed thru the Dexibell. Pretty slick! Now I'm exploring using Dexibell's "XMURE" app to use my iPad as an arranger module. So, I may not look for a BK-m7 after all and save some big $$$!!!! smile


Oh great that sounds pretty cool - it looks as if you're sorted. Where there's a will there's a way.
Posted By: newbert Re: Two Last MIDI Questions (Hopefully).... - 08/21/19 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
You'll save even more by not buying an even more expensive arranger module from Ketron. wink

But of course if you only need to save a little, then not buying the BK-7M is a perfectly valid option too.


Yeah - I got quoted a price for the Ketron and almost passed out!
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