hello all. this is jack, its my first post. very happy my account would work .and I have a question about to choiceing a piano for myself, first of all I LOVE piano very mush, I watched so many vids try to compear the Sounds but I still cannot make a choice, so I have to ask you PRO.

For me , I want to play it,but never go for a show or something, just stay at home and enjoy it. and I like Jazz very much, all kinds jazz I guess, only one classical music which is Hungarian Rhapsody no.2 .
I will play them no matter what. so I will keep trying. keep learning.
now I have to chooice
1 Roland RD-2000 sounds little bit harder but im not sure is it good ? (maybe should wait for new RD, new sound and keyboard.)
2 YAMAHA CP-88 always light and soft, kind of real also fake
3 Korg Grandstage newest one should be better, sounds good
4 Kawai MP11SE dont know why has to be MP11SE, why cannot be MP12? so just a little bit upgradet? couldnt do a new one ? whats the SE mean？
（The most curious and the most worried one）

I dont know whcih one has very good quality, and the SOUND is good for the JAZZ, maybe also could play the jazz drum for me to solo? LOL. is it too much ?
never saw any videos that make them to battle , and I dont think there will be any one new model in 2019 NAMM or 2020 NAMM .so maybe its time to do it.
please tell me which one should I buy, they all same price so its not a problems for me to buy one.

Thank you very mush !

If you are looking for a piano, and not an electronic keyboard, the best is the MP11SE.

My choice is (and was) the MP11SE.

I am totally happy with it.

Great touch and sound.

"SE" means "Second Edition". This version of the MP11 adds new Shigeru Kawai piano samples, a new triple pedal unit, remodelled design, and various other improvements, yet is still based on the existing functionality of the MP11.

Kind regards,
James
x

I think you'll need either:

. . . good headphones, or

. . . two good "powered monitor" (amplifier + loudspeaker).

There are many threads, here, which will give you possibilities.

Two more questions:

. . . Do you have a piano now? What kind?

. . . Do you have a teacher now ?

Thanks --

heloo
yes I have good monitor
and so far I only tryed Korg Kronos2 and Roland HP-508

both sounds good, roland is mush harder than the korg . and korg is very good
so far I dont have teacher, I am lookin for it .

hello james
will the MP12 coming soon ? part of me always want a very new model. and more sound will be better.

oh and one more thing, could you please tell me is there any chinese manual for MP11SE? cause that would be much easier to handle. thank you

after all videos

its gonna YAMAHA CP-88 VS KAWAI MP11SE

go yamaha ?
go kawai ?

I would say go Kawai all the way. They have a well deserved reputation for producing the best actions you could find on a DP unless you buy an hybrid (and Kawai one is excellent too anyway)

Yamaha did a fantastic job on their early 2000 clavinova CLP-990 which was one of the very finest action you could find in a DP, but everything afterward has been severly downgraded except their hybrids (which are much more pricey of course). When Yamaha realized people would apparently still buy more Yamaha than any other brand whilst they continued to significantly downgrade the action and compensate with marketing, they went full "profits above all". Kawai didn't and still continues to refine its finest actions even if it means less margins for them (the outstanding action of the CLP-990 certainly costed more to produce than the actions in most high-range clavinovas of today).

So yes, Kawai MP11SE without a doubt for me, plus the new shigeru samples seems highly regarded. The Shigerus being exceptional acoustic pianos in their own merits.

MP11SE

Sorry for the Yamaha fans here but don't go and fall for the CP-88 over the Kawai MP11SE. The CP-88 is crap born of deceptive marketing ploys and greed for money, no less. Plain and simple.

The so-called wooden action called GH3/Natural Wood is not! It's just some plastic keys (and short at that!) with a thin sticker (yes a sticker!) of wood veneer slapped on each sides of the keys to make you believe the keys are entirely wooden. It's bordering scam, it's deceptive and manipulative marketing tactics born of greed.

The CP-88 is absolutely no match for the MP11SE and here's why:

Here's Yamaha so called "natural wood" action that's in the CP-88:



Here's Kawai GF action with REAL wooden keys that's in the MP11SE and compared to a real grand:



Do I need to say more?

(oh and that's not even accounting for the fact that the CP-88 has a hammers-underneath-the-keys configuration that is certainly not as ideal as the Kawai's configuration in terms of feeling and mimicking a grand action).

Yes, you need to say more.You need to say SOMETHING.
That picture names the digital piano model ... but says nothing about the grand.

I presume you're focused on key length. But you provide no measurement.

Conclusion: none possible.

And for the record, here's what Yamaha was offering in their high range clavinova DP almost 20 years before now:



Surprise, surprise...

Go with the Kawai, if not only for the undeniable superiority of its action but as a mean to support the fact that, while not being all-pure themselves (as a company you still have to make more money and sometimes cut costs at the expense of the customer), still manages to value craftsmanship more than marketing...

Hello Jack,



I don't believe so. The MP7SE/MP11SE are very competitive instruments, and will remain Kawai's current stage pianos for some time yet.



Yes, Chinese language owner's manuals for the MP11SE and MP7SE can be downloaded from either the KawaiMP.com website or Kawai-Global.com website. For convenience, here is a direct link to the Chinese language MP11SE owner's manual PDF:

http://www.kawai-global.com/data/manuals/MP11SE_CH_R100.pdf

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hello Alan,



While it's true that Yamaha's "Natural Wood" actions use keys produced using a combination of plastic and wood, I don't believe your description is accurate. Certainly these keys cannot be compared to Kawai's fully wooden keys, however the amount of wood material used in Yamaha's keyboard actions is more than simply "wood veneers".

There are threads discussing this topic elsewhere on PianoWorld, and it should be possible to find other photos of Yamaha's "Natural Wood" action keys from different angles via Google Images, which clearly show the plastic+wood key construction.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hi CJ,

These two instruments are designed for entirely different purposes. The MP11SE is a home/studio stage piano. It is much heavier and has the best action available in a slab piano. The MP11SE has a limited number of high quality sounds but it is not designed for playing with a band---for that you'd opt for the MP7SE which has much more sounds and more functionality for gigging.

On the other hand, the Yamaha CP88 is a Nord clone firmly aimed at gigging musicians who---due to the fact that they're playing always within a band---do not care about string resonance and piano action because they're not playing nuanced piano solos.

If you are playing in a band regularly gigging, then look at the Kawai MP7SE, the Nord Grand, the Korg Grandstage, the Roland RD2000 and the Yamaha CP88. If you're looking at something for the home, probably consider the RD2000 and the MP11 (the Grandstage action isn't competitive but it sounds good).

Kind regards,

Doug.

thank you Doug, for me , I like Roland , because I like brian culbertson, and he use roland so I like it . LOL

and I think I may go with kawai and buy the new RD if I could gen into that level of skill, so thank you very much and I now have to make mp11se vs GrandStage now. couse those two are both good.

thank you james . that chinese ver is very helpful.

yamaha always use that GH3, maybe its good enough for the stage show. midi play also. but the sound, I cannot tell, its fake and real

and mp11se sound just a little bit obscure. close to kurzweil but a little bit obscure.

High range Yamaha keyboards are NW (Natural Wood) and no longer GH3. They feel very different.

(There are also NWX, Grand Touch)

I'd buy the Roland for the action. BTW have you tried the FP-90? It's much cheaper than the RD2000 but has the same action. The sound engine is very different though. You don't have nearly as many sounds. I think the Kawai is equally good, but I just happen to prefer the action of the Roland.

Have you played the MP11SE ?

I ask, because I cannot imagine "preferring" the Roland action if you have played the MP11SE.

Yes. I don't randomly select piano actions to recommend. Why shouldn't I prefer it?

Good.

Sorry …. Had to ask. It has been known to happen.




No particular reason.

I guess I have become such a fan of the MP11SE that it is just difficult for me to imagine someone playing it and then preferring something else.

I suppose there is a bit of Kawai bias in there.

I have been playing Kawai pianos for quite a while.

I've been playing Kawai for a long time too. I have an MP10.

Well, in that case …. I have added respect for your preference.

HAHAHA so far no one say go YAMAHA

I went YAMAHA CP88 for that fantastic C7 sample, the future OS updates and new sounds, the looks, the name, the keybed, the quality, the weight, the size, the 78 rhodes, the original DX and CP sounds... (in random order).

Hi China Jack.

I‘d definitely take Yamaha. Great sound AND build to last! A lot of the REAL PROs (Jazz / Pop ) use Yamaha. Among others, true. But there’s a lotta love for Yamaha from the Pros out there. Bit of love for Nord, also true, couple Rolands, maybe some Korgs, but, this is it. Pros usually don‘t use other brands.

So let me give you a feedback on Yamaha. I have owned many Yamaha gears since 90's. The current situation with Yamaha is pretty sad.

These days Yamaha is just making instruments to sell and have "zero" respect for the intelligence of the artist. Before I purchase my Kawai MP7SE, I almost bought a Yamaha CP4. CP4 has the SCM technology in it (Spectral Component Modelling) and there were no velocity layers (almost). The action on CP4 is pretty decent but the reality is: CP4 almost sounds the same as my MOTIF XF.

Now why I didn't give a single care to CP88?

- SCM is removed
- Completely sampled based stage piano
- Action is inferior to Kawai MP7SE
- Soundwise, Yamaha is not 88 keys sampled.
- No key-off release
- No sympathetic resonance on Yamaha
- Superior pedal in Kawai MP series
- Very limited voice editing capabilities
- Inferior drawbar organs (Kawai has a drawbar mode)
- Polyphony is 128 vs Kawai 256
and many more.

and price-wise, Yamaha PC88 is way way expensive for what it is.

Who said that pros don't use Kawai? If you see many PROs playing Yamaha is not because they have chosen Yamaha themselves, it is because they got one for free!

The only positive side of Yamaha CP88 is its audio interface, else MP7/11SE beats CP88 in every aspect.

Try both. Try Yamaha CP88 and Kawai MP7/11SE and see which one you like the most.

My 2 cents: Kawai is much more fun to play and is way more expressive than Yamaha. MP7SE is also a badass MIDI controller. If you have a multi-keyboard setup, it is fantastic.

Yeah, very sad indeed. I give 'em two, maybe three more years and they're done.

Just to be clear:

. . . That's a joke, isn't it?

Indeed. You said it, CC.

Let's see ... Yamaha, the biggest piano maker in the world (and the biggest musical instrument maker in the world) ... will soon be "done" (out of business?) in a couple of years ... because somebody doesn't like one of their keyboards?

hello
its a ture story I will say. I am sure not good and pro as you guys in the DP . but I saw all those years products from all brand. I will say yamaha had impact by Nord . from what I know. Roland V-piano had make a change for the sound and cp1 lose. then while the rd700nx vs cp4 cp5 vs rd800. here comes the Nord . and it did kills all. and Roland fight back by RD2000, but yamaha? new Montage and Geons ? just when Korg grandstage comes out now it has the cp88.
I am just saying it. yamaha made CLP CVP CP for all kinds. maybe its right, but the so called NW? its gh3 . roland has changed for pah-2 -3 -4a -50 and more, yes I am curious about the touch feel. is the feel very important ? is the sound should be most important ? I dont know, but for these 5 years. what are those new keyboard has Replaced？
I dont want say bad about yamaha , but from what Isaw, it just did,
so I am waiting for the new RD, it should be more good,

I like yamaha , because I live in ASIAN, so I heard it very often. more than the kawai . and now when I wanna buy one, I have to say. if I watch the cp88 video and cp88 only, it sounds sooooo good, I will even think the sound is a little bit fake, you know what I mean? its like the real thing but somehow it dont like the real thing at all, its just how I feel. I dont know , I was wonder for CP8 CP10 something, it will good, like the kawai touch.. great sound, but it doesnt happend. and like I said, if I watching the vp88 videos , I will like it , but the thing is , you know those video , the play them all. so I will compare them by subliminal. and then cp88 is not good .

I think the best way to select DP that you wanna buy is listem the video. dont look at them. just listen, and which one you like the sound . you buy it, its more easy.

Are you getting a piano to play it, or to listen to it?

You can buy CDs of professionals playing for a fraction of the price.

Hi CJ,

It's not so complicated

You first draw up a short list based upon budget and purpose (keep shortlist to models out in last 4 years)---have a good think about what you need. If you can't decide, test lots of models in store first then decide.
You test the models.
The action and sound combination you like the best (holistically) you buy.
If you can't test, think what you need and buy the instrument that best suits budget and that sounds best from YouTube videos etc.

Both sound and action quality are subjective issues. What an acoustic player likes, a digital player might not. Even within groupings, there is large variation of opinion because acoustic actions and sound also vary a lot and people's perceptions vary too much for one to say: this is what you'll like.

One way of looking at it:

If you are gigging in a band and don't intend to do complex sound edit prior to the gig, you go for the Nord Piano 4 or Yamaha CP88.
If you want a mid-range more all-round stage piano for gigging and personal use, you've got the GrandStage, MP7SE, etc
If you want a top all rounder with great action, you go for the RD2000 as it can do so much more.
If you want 40 great sounds with the best action in a slab piano (pianist stage piano), you get the MP11SE.
If you want a workstation, get a Korg Kronos
If you want a synth workstation with FM engine, get a Montage 88.

If you don't care about sound editing, splits, multi-patch sound combinations, midi controlling, pitch bend and modulation wheels, tonnes of rhythm patterns, sequencer ability etc., and you like the actions enough, then consider a portable piano such as the ES8, FP90, P515, PX3000S etc.

When you test things out, you'll have a much better idea for yourself.

If you have the money, the best stage and portable actions IMO (in no particular order)

Yamaha NXW (P515)
Roland PHAIII (V-piano)
Roland PHAIV (RD800)
Roland PHA50 (RD2000, FP90)
Kawai RHIII (ES8, MP7SE)
Kawai GrandFeel 1 (MP11 and MP11SE)
Kawai RM3II (VPC1)
Kawai RHII (ES7 and MP7)

All these are quality products.

Some instruments have great sound but less great actions but are still amazing instruments:

Top of this second tier action list is the Nord Piano 4 and Yamaha CP88 (for gigging though).
Below are: Korg Grandstage, Kurzweil Forte, Kurzweil Artis, Nord Piano 3, Nord Stage 3, Physis Piano, Casios (PX3000S), Korg Kronos, Yamaha Montage 88, Yamaha MODX boards, Hammond SK1 Dexibel products etc etc etc.

Anything over £1500 is going to be great. All these in the second list are very good boards and you probably won't find them all in one store to test anyway!

Have fun testing out things. Don't decide too quickly. Consider the used piano market to avoid suffering depreciation.

Kind regards,

Doug.

Perhaps related, there are people who buy acoustic grand pianos as furniture. When my wife and I had a flat in Shanghai, we had a few friends who kept grand pianos in their home whose main function was decorative. PianoDisc, Disklavier, etc. are popular in Asia.

thanks alot doug , its a great way to find out. I think I will consider try to do more test or watching the videos.

Good one, but I didn't say Yamaha will disappear. Yamaha has made many iconic instruments! Unfortunately, CP88 is not one of them! Name something innovative about CP88 other than being a ROMPler?

Also, it should be noted that Yamaha does not offer any alternatives to Kawai MP11SE. So there is no point in comparing CP88 with MP11SE. The only product which makes sense to compare CP88 with is MP7SE.

CP4 is a great instrument but I liked MP7SE. This is just a personal preference which is completely based on the priorities I have.

What i know about this forum is that Kawai is almost always the default recommendation, not saying that is a bad thing. IMO, you just need to go and play and listen to each of them and pick one you like.

To be honest, how the action feel is very personal , some key action may feel more "acoustic" and make more like "acoustic" piano, no really matter, if you dont like it.

If you had been here long ago you might have said that Yamaha was the default recommendation.

Why does the CP88 need to be innovative? It's a stage piano - the priorities should be on providing a good keyboard action, a good selection of sounds, and an intuitive interface.

Cheers,
James
x

If we compare the technology Yamaha has at hand, CP88 has less technology in it compared to CP4 and its high-end digital pianos. The "synthesis engine" is purely sample playback. This is somewhat questionable because the DP department takes a different approach and does add neat features to its higher-end digital pianos. P-515 is a really nice digital piano identical or better action and sounds better in my opinion.

My humble guess is Yamaha is trying to imitate Nord but they're short in budget. They cut down the features in their CP series and decreased the design complexity of releasing new sample libraries. Of course, the most important point is that they reduced the production and future support costs as it most likely uses the same engine as MONTAGE does. The only dynamic difference is the CP88 exclusive sample libraries, the rest are static, better action (compared to Montage8) and a different interface do not need any changes over time. Obviously, loading new samples on an instrument is an appealing concept, it makes users happy and makes them feel "satisfied" but the expressiveness of the instrument is questionable.

So the innovation is not user-oriented but profit oriented. This makes 100% sense for Yamaha but 0% to me. When I purchased my piano, I was looking for a complex instrument, not another AWM2 sample-playback keyboard.

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion. CP88 is a nice instrument. Great action and some neat samples. To me this is Yamaha's effort to fit the S90XX series into Nord's interface.

We can also ask the same question about Kawai/Korg/Roland etc: Why they put this much detail in their stage piano unlike Yamaha?

Nowadays, the default recommendation seems to be “get a teacher”. Though “you gotta go and try them yourself” is coming in a close 2nd.

Hi KJ,

The CP88 is price innovative because it's a Nord-esque instrument you don't have to sell your mother-in-law in order to afford ;-) lol...

Why I like it is because Yamaha have thought very hard about how they want it to be different and decided that a good chunk of people would like a Nord but don't want to mortgage their house.

Casio have thought: A good chunk of people would like a light stage piano that can be battery powered that looks really swanky and is perfect for weddings and out-door venues.
Kawai have thought: quite a few of the market want a higher quality action and a more piano like experience with their stage piano.
Roland have thought: we want an all singing and dancing stage piano with arranger like functionality and modelled piano sound and competitive action.

I can't think of a better time to buy an instrument! So many good choices to suit all needs.

Kind regards,

Doug.

CP88 looks much cooler than the MP11SE imo. I am thinking of getting a CP88 too. Really love the design and the user interface. Looks cool even when I am not playing it!
MP11SE is one of the ugliest boards in the category... Would never get one no matter how realistic/ grand-like the key action is.