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Posted By: tensword Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/22/10 03:46 PM
So Kawai has this harmonic imaging sound technology, which is widely used in its models. But there are some difference there, like the "Progressive" harmonic imaging sound, and with "88 note sampling", etc.

My question is is what does progressive really mean? I notice MP8II and CE200 are just "Harmonic imaging sound", but CN, CA ES6, etc are using progressive harmonic imaging sound.
Thanks!
Posted By: ChrisA Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/22/10 04:30 PM
The just plain old "HI" is old and I don't think is a match for any current offering from Yamaha or Roland. But Kawai really has improved and their newer progressive 88 note sampled HI is much better. They should replace hose older model DPs that still have the old style HI. The sound of the old HI is not really bad, I'd describe it as "to clean" it is musical but if you are buying a new DP get a recent model.
Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/22/10 04:55 PM
So how does it compare to KORG's, say LP350 sound?
Posted By: Jeff Clef Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/22/10 05:44 PM
It's a good question, tensword, and I'd like to see you take your curiosity and some good headphones to the sellers' showroom, and give us the answer after you've investigated.

Of course I'd like to know, but I suggest this approach in your own interest.
Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/22/10 06:12 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, Jeff. I'd like to try them in real, but it's just very inconvenient for me to do this since I a student without a car.

I am wondering if EP3 and CE200 (and even MP8II, except for the polypony) utilize the same sound technology? They are a little bit confusing.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/22/10 10:00 PM
tensword, yes the Kawai instruments currently available from the large music retailers such as Sweetwater, Kraft, etc. (EP3, CE200, MP5, MP8II) all utilise the same 'Harmonic Imaging' sound technology.

Instruments available from Kawai dealers however use the more modern sound technologies featuring 88-key piano sampling and far greater level of expressiveness.

You may find this link helps to explain the difference between the various 'Harmonic Imaging' standards.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/23/10 03:52 AM
Thanks James!
Well, I heard people say that CE200 has poor sound as its weakness, but now I can't believe this cause MP8II has the same sound technology. Frankly speaking, I can't really hear the difference of "Hi" or "Progressive" based on the on-line video or downloaded MP3. (Yes I am a first learner.) Maybe I can visit some retailer place and try them.

Anyway, do you know why the CA18 or CA12 is not on the US market? (You probably know what I am interested in: AWA Pro II action and 88 note sampling...)
Thanks again!
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/23/10 04:13 AM
tensword, there is a considerable difference in sound quality between the CE200 and a more modern instrument such as the CN93/CA63. Of course, this may vary depending on the quality of the audio/video in the demonstration clip and of course the skill of the player.

Originally Posted by tensword
Frankly speaking, I can't really hear the difference of "Hi" or "Progressive" based on the on-line video or downloaded MP3.


May I ask which videos you are referring to, please?

Originally Posted by tensword
Maybe I can visit some retailer place and try them.


Yes, I strongly recommend this over listening to MP3 clips or videos online.

Originally Posted by tensword
Anyway, do you know why the CA18 or CA12 is not on the US market?


I'm afraid I do not. My recommendation would be to contact Kawai US and ask if they have any plans to introduce this model (or similar models) in the near future.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/23/10 05:02 AM
Well, several videos on the official website, and on Youtube... The clip quality is not good.

"Considerable difference". Now I definitely need to try them on site.

Another question: Could CE200 be used with Synthogy Ivory virtual source on computer? -Just in case...

Thanks again!

Best,
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/23/10 07:34 AM
tensword, the clip quality on Youtube can vary greatly, however here are a handful of YouTube clips I found from just entering the product names:

CE200 - Harmonic Imaging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBZiWuFBPGg

ES6 - Harmonic Imaging, 88-key piano sampling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaEQ9KVy4hs

CN33 - Progressive Harmonic Imaging, 88-key piano sampling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=238HW0FEoB8

CA93 - Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging, 88-key piano sampling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AX8hodTWYQ

It's obviously not a like-for-like comparison, however I believe you should at least be able to hear the differences in tonal quality and expressiveness between the CE200 and CA93.
Of course, it's no substitute for sitting down at the instrument, playing it with your own hands, and listening with your own ears.

Ah, with Youtube it's also important to watch the clips at at least 480p resolution to ensure that stereo sound playback is enabled.

Originally Posted by tensword
Could CE200 be used with Synthogy Ivory virtual source on computer?


Sure. This is actually quite a popular use for the CE200 as it also features line-in jacks so you could reroute the audio from your computer back into the instrument, making use of both its keyboard action and speaker system.

Cheers,
James
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Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/24/10 04:05 AM
Thanks James, for the poison of CA93. The sound from it is just beautiful. Comparatively the CE200 is somewhat lacking emotion and sounds a little electronic.

No best, just better. In the end you get what you can pay for. And I really need to feel them on site...

And thanks for the tip about CE200. Actually what I want is an midi RM3 Keyboard, considering my budget... just kidding.

Thanks for all your help!

Best,
Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/24/10 04:14 AM
Still question about sound:)
I saw this on the German website:
http://www.kawai.de/ca51_en.htm
And noticed that both the CA111 and the CA51 uses an Harmonic Imaging II technology, So is this the one that also used on CE200? Thanks!
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/24/10 05:17 AM
tensword,

Originally Posted by tensword
Actually what I want is an midi RM3 Keyboard, considering my budget... just kidding.


Well, we'll see. wink

Originally Posted by tensword
And noticed that both the CA111 and the CA51 uses an Harmonic Imaging II technology, So is this the one that also used on CE200?


The '1 series' CA models (CA51, CA61, CA71, CA91, CA111) all use the same sound technology. The CE200 is similar, however it's hardware is actually based on the CA5 model (one generation before the CA51).

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
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Posted By: tensword Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/24/10 05:50 AM
Thanks a lot! This is a very direct and clear answer.

Best,
Yu
Posted By: Upright Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/24/10 06:13 AM
An little offtopic question, James:

If I remember right, you wrote in another thread, that the new RX-2 ATX uses the UPHI technology from the '3 series for the digital sound. On the German Kawai Site http://www.kawai.de/rx2atx_de.htm it is written, that Harmonic Imaging II is used.

Which statement is correct?

Edit: The difference in polyphony on the specs sheet suggests, there must be a difference. But then, Kawai Europe maybe should correct the statement about what Harmonic Imaging generation is used.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Harmonic Imaging sound? - 08/24/10 06:25 AM
Mawima, the specification on Kawai Europe's website is incorrect.

Thank you for pointing this out - I'll ask the chaps to fix it straight away.

Cheers,
James
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