Quick question. When you learn a song and you have the sheet music for it. Then you decide to write down all the letters down on the sheet. Is that a very bad technique to learn a song? I know it's better to read the actual notes but I find that writing down all the letters give me a slight edge of reading stuff quicker. I'm planning just to memorise and not rely on the sheet. I'm trying new things atm.

Anyone do this?

Very bad.

No.

If it helps you, go ahead! But I think you need to learn more than just the notes.

Also, note that 'quick' is not necessarily the best way. In the end you want to play it, not to know the letters.

>Anyone do this?
No, I learn mostly learn the melody and the muscle feels.
But it is pretty slow , not sure if this is the best way.

lol k

Yes, I know.

Yes, this is very, very bad. It does not help teach you the notes for playing-- so what you are doing is using a 'crutch' to immediately learn something rather than develop a skill that you can apply to other music. 'Slight edges' = slow learning progress.

This has been a repeated response which bears repeating: there are no shortcuts when learning to play piano.

Yep it does help me Wouter79. I know the theory stuff like hold this and that and play that loud or soft etc etc. All the theory stuff is no problem but reading notes is sometimes tricky hence why I wrote the notes down.


What do you mean teh melody and muscle?

@dmd Glad you can read.

@dogperson I don't understand why it's bad? I mean your reading notes anyways right? Also this will help me recongize notes quicker and in the future I can reference it and whatnot.

I wish I had a teacher I have given up finding one none responded to me yet. I am not chasing them I wait for them to chase me I have already contacted 7 teachers now. Maybe birmingham is a [censored] hole after all.

Yes, it's good if it helps you become a great pianist in a few years time.

@RaggedKeyPresser not sure if your being sarcastic or serious...

One guiding thought, Cutestpuppie:
There are no shortcuts in learning the piano, but people are looking for them all the time, and they have for years.
Learn to read the notes directly from the staff.
Do a few at a time. There's no need to learn them all at once.

You do not want to rely on a reference to recognize notes. You want to be able to see a note on the stav and immediately know if that is an A, G, F, and where it is on the piano. Writing in letters is a crutch that will slow down your learning to do this automatically.. it will not help you recognize notes quicker, but SLOWER as you will not learn to coordinate what is in your BRAIN to what is on the KEYBOARD. What will you do later when you get a new piece? Write it down again or use your reference to copy???? And then again???
If you take the time to learn the right way, you can use what you learn and apply it to all new music. Amazing.

Yeh, well ... good luck with that.

@dmd I have better stuff to do in my life right now ain't got no time chasing plebs down.

I am sure you do.

Not like you

Writing down the notes as text does not help you to learn reading the staff. So you are just introducing another layer in the already long playing pipeline of reading -> imagining the melodies -> planning the muscle motions -> executing the motions.

Also, I believe the staff is more optimal for understanding the notes as part of a melody and harmony than the letters. The letters are closer to planning the muscle motions, except that you added an extra layer and skip the imagining of the melodies. I think playing from the melodies promotes better understanding, while playing from notes might promotes more 'pressing the keys'.



I mean, the parts of the playing pipeline

I wouldn't, because then you're going to read the letters instead of the notes.

What you CAN do is if there's a big outlier (a note on 3 or four ledger lines, for example), count it out and write the name beside it. After you've played the piece for some time, you'll know that note, and in the next piece you don't need the name anymore.

I do this myself, when notes drop below the lowest line on the bass clef (G) without anything in between. Even with everything between that G and the F I'm slow to read them.

(From the F at clef height up to F, with two ledger lines, isn't a problem.)

Thanks for the help guys, unlike other people.
Appreciate it
I erase all the letters then

Don't forget to erase the letters you've written on the keys of your piano too .

Haha I don't have anything written on my keyboard lol

I can read notes nearly fluently now on the staff but ledger lines is still a struggle. I can better read on my left hand. The reason why I want to write notes is because I want to cheat sorta like writing all the answers down if you know what i mean.

I don't even know why I am continuing this one-sided conversation. If you feel the need to write down the note names, you are not reading them fluently. Spend your time learning how to read the notes.... in both hands.

Cutestpuppie, what kind of music are you reading and writing notes on?? From your ability to sight-read, it seems you should be able to read them fluently?

I can understand if you're writing down note names on ledger lined notes. That is different.

I can read in both hands but I find it 100% easier from reading the letters now you say it's bad technique then I'm not going to use it. I have loads of questions to ask that is why u guys are mad again I don't have teacher and I would defiantly ask my teacher instead.

Are you just slower when you read from the music? What do you mean by you can read but it's easier reading letters? You're not answering the questions about what kind of music you're reading. Is it the anime music?

Writing in notes takes a lot of time too, you don't need to do that. If you practice playing a piece, learning the notes based on how they are written, you will get faster. If you're always writing in note names, you're going to have to do that for every single piece in the future. I don't think that's what you want.

@hellomynameis yes without the letters im slower because some notes I think 0.5-3 seconds in my brain then press keyboard because you know that anime music is very complicated. Every bar notes are up then down then up, down, up then ledgers up down up etc etc so if I write down the letters I can instantly pin point the notes. I know I suk at explaining but I think you understand what I'm saying I hope
I don't know the terminology 😚

Yes it's anime music. I find that anime music notes are all over the place hence why writing the letters down is easier for me so I can instantly know where to play etc

Writing down note takes a lot of time yes but at the same time I'm learning the notes too but that's just an excuse I guess.

Put it this way if I write down the letters I can play fluently (sorta) and if I don't I'm slower (50% slower)

Typed on iPhone.

Can you link the piece that you're trying to learn? Anime sheet music is often poorly written I think, therefore more frustrating.

Nonetheless, try to limit yourself to only writing the note names in on the ledger lines.

Also if you can find the piece and listen to it, try playing by ear and see if that is less frustrating.

You are very good at typing on the iPhone, which means you'll be great at hitting the keys on the piano too. They are much bigger!

@hellomynameis I will send you the music via pm I'm at Uni right now and I don't have the sheet on my phone Dropbox.Yes I do write the letters on the ledger lines. I am doing this ear course online as we speak but not really got into it yet.

@Albunea most of the time I'm on my phone in uni so I type most of the time
I use tapatalk app it's really good 😊

Typed on iPhone.

But why are you reading notes while you are playing? It's a waste of time, energy, and it takes more time.

The reason you don't need to write in the notes is because you *don't* read them while playing. You read intervals.

@morodiene what do you mean? If I don't read the notes then how am I suppose to know what to play? Are you referring to selmthing else?

Read intervals? That is new to me what do you mean? I can't remember what interval mean again but I have it jointed down on my piano notebook somewhere lol. Can yon give some example please

Typed on iPhone.

OK I'll take a look. I have some suggestions for pretty music that would be easier. PM'd you.

I think Morodiene means reading as in "that is a... ok, C... *plays C*" as opposed to "*sees black circle on line* *plays C*"

Interval refers to the amount of space between two notes.

Cutest I know you pm'd me, but I think it would be helpful for you if you posted the music on here for others (like Morodiene) to see. The anime music I recall looking at by that particular guy you like has ghastly ghastly intervals and doesn't lend itself well to reading at all.

Reading intervals means you read in relation to the note that you are on and where you are going. If it starts on the middle line in Treble clef and the next note is the same line, you play the same key. You don't have to read "b" and then "B" again.

If you are on the middle line and the next note is in the space above that line, you know to play the next key on the piano to the right. If it's lower, you play the key to the left. That interval is a 2nd, but you identify it mostly by how it looks: line to next space or space to next line = step up or down.

We use letter names for notes (A,B,C, etc.) because we have to have a name for it. If you want someone to play a B, it's easier to say "Play a B" than it is to say "Play the middle line in treble clef". When playing, one only reads the note name once in a while. It's the exception, not the rule.

Going through a method book would be your best bet. Why not try the Alfred All In One Course? It teaches you how to read intervals.

He already completed the Alfred AIO book 1 already in a few days.

I think the best way to read music is to form an association between the note on the staff to the actual key on the keyboard. Bypassing counting intervals, letter names, Every Good Boy (?).

That way, instant transference of note on page to key on piano. That was the way I learnt it, and as far as I know, all my fellow students. The letter names are totally secondary - you don't need instant transference and can take your time counting intervals if you want. Though eventually, you'll also recognize immediately that a note in a certain position on a staff corresponds to a letter name. But you don't need that to help with reading music on the piano, unless you've developed that as a crutch.

After all, how did we learn to recognize numbers, and the alphabet? By recognising that 2 = 2, and A = A, with no intermediate 'steps', like a pyramid = A .

+1. You want to go as quickly and efficiently as possible from seeing a black blob among the lines and spaces to a finger pressing a key. A detour through the alphabet is counterproductive.

Ok thanks I don't know what to say I read and I get confused but thanks

It's impossible to complete book 1 in 1 week? I did it myself so if I played something wrong that is not my problem and if I had teacher then it's gonna take months because he/she will teach me the correct way of playing. I skimmed the boring stuff that I can play and played the stuff I don't know such as the songs and scales. Don't need to be a smart as to do it in 1 week I completed halo 3 legendary in 1 day ez gee

Typed on iPhone

What is the "correct way" and what are you doing "incorrectly"?
If you have the basic rhythm and notes correctly, including holding them down for the right number of counts, taking the rests, different teachers will differ on what else they want you to make sure you have down (loud, soft, staccato, phrasing, all that beautiful stuff), especially at the first book level. You're not playing these as recital pieces.
But if you're blatantly playing them incorrectly, it's no use to go through it in a week!

Yes. A bad idea. A feel-good shortcut that will just hold you back.

@Hellomyname is For example wrong fingering, playing fast, holding pedal for no reason (cuz it sound cool :D) playing 1 or 2 wrong notes and not correcting them instantly and many more BUT I did play the music correctly well the notes and stuff but obviously not perfect. Basically I rushed it. I had no guidance so I didnt care to be honest. That is why I need a teacher to scold me and slap me when I play something wrong lol

In my books I've only pushed the pedal for some Cathedral Bells.

Playing fast is different from playing with incorrect rhythm. I wonder which you are doing but of course have no way to tell. Sometimes beginners want to "rush" through half notes and whole notes.

At the level 1 book, I think it would be useful for you to learn to play the music perfectly (notes).

Also fingering will be very very useful for you to get right. Fingering is there for practical reasons. When music gets more complicated, having the right fingering can make or break a passage.

I might be wrong, but I think what he did in one week was "Little Fingers" or one of the Premier books, not a Level 1 Alfred In All. Or did you, Cutie?

@Albunea Cool right? I play scales with the loud pedal LOL. Sound very cool and professional :P

@Hellomynameis Yes I was rushing very badly
i might re do it again but take it very very slowly

In my opinion, you should not do it.

I actually know someone who put stickers on their piano with letters and color coordinated too. Her piano has red stickers with C on every C, and blue stickers with D on every D, green stickers with E, yellow, orange, the color of the rainbow, for 5 of the 8 octaves on her piano. Then you look at her music, it has letters written out for every note. You can go as far as you like with this scenario, but the end result is, are you training yourself to read any music or just your customized music? Are you training yourself to play any piano or just your customized piano? You need to understand your goals and proceed accordingly. There is no right or wrong technique or approach as long as you know your goals.

Reading music is a combination of reading absolute values of notes, "C at the 5 octave", distance from note to note, "next note is a third down", you don't need to know the name of it, and recognizing pattern on the page, "music moving up then down", and understanding structure, "dominant resolving to tonic", and many other things. As a beginner don't over process any of these things. Don't ask too many questions, just absorb slowly and accept. You'll slowly find your own way. If you write note names out, do it for the notes you're making repeated mistakes is a good practice. Every note, not so much. Similarly, if you keep forgetting to play one sharp, then write a sharp next to the note. Writing out every sharp and flat ahead of time? Not a good idea.

Realize that most people fluent in reading written sentences read at least 3 to 4 words at a time. They do not read one letter at a time. This is where beginners are in music, one note at a time. Eventually, you have to read more than one note, more than a few notes, an entire or at least part of a phrase in one glance, just like written sentence in English. If you cannot progress pass that phase, your reading skills is stuck in kindergarten of music learning. Then when you move up the grades, you'll find that a "song" that took 4 weeks to learn in grades 3 and 4 would take 8 weeks, 12 weeks, or longer when you're in grade 6 or 7 because basically you are incapable of reading. If you can read, every "song" from every grade should take 4 weeks to learn as you move up.

Can you imagine being in college and told to read 1000-page book in the next 2-3 weeks, and you're reading one letter at a time?

Hope this makes sense?

Aha ... someone else is beginning to see the uselessness in all of this.

Custestpuppie, please re-read your thread and question - How to best learn left hand, https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...y_to_learn_to_read_left.html#Post2572919, where you and I discussed this already, so it is not new to you.

When we first teach kids to play, we teach them to read the steps and skips and the contour of the line, not the note names. Of course, they start out playing just a couple of notes per hand and only steps and build on that. So they do not go through the process of figuring out the name of each individual note and where it is on the keyboard.

For instance, for a five note scale starting on C and going up, for the right hand, we teach them to say:

1, up, up, up, up.

(they always start with the first note as a finger number)

No need to know the note names or translate them to a key. In fact, they can do this method before they even start using a staff.

When they have repeated notes, we say "same".
When we get to skips, we say "skip" or the size of the interval, like 4th or 5th.

So, yes, as soon as you can get beyond writing down note names, the better off you will be.

Sam

what do you mean? i dont understand what you trying to tell me?

In reference to your question to Morodiene about intervals. You've asked it before, and it's been answered for you before.

Aha ... someone else is beginning to notice this.

It just goes on and on.

FWIW, for some new pieces I am learning, I write some of the notes on the sheet. This is something I do mainly to aid impaired vision which makes it difficult for me to quickly read relatively small font notation such as on standard sheet music and piano course books; it helps (me) and frankly, at my age, I am not much concerned with the badness other players may infer with this technique ...... your piano learning dignity & mileage may vary.

Especially when my eyes are tired AND particularly with certain cord or arpeggio arrangements where several notes are either tightly scrunched together or widely spaced, it is quicker for my brain to read my note while keeping pace with playing than it is to instantly determine which lines and spaces the scored notes occupy. Another reason I do this is when a piece requires one or a few isolated strokes in an area of either clef that is well above or below the typical sweetspot of where most of the playing occurs . I still consider myself a beginner, perhaps now a late beginner but a beginner nonetheless, I still think / do / ask beginner-like things and at least in name this still is a forum for beginners. Having said this, given that passages making up many piano songs frequently contain repeats - the same series of harmony .... refrain .....fingering / cords etc occuring several times in a piece - I do not write the notes for repeats because even with my vision I can usually quickly recognize repeating patterns and the need for visual aid becomes lessened. ..... to do it for every note in the piece? .... bad puppy, bad puppy! 🎹

@8ocotaves I see it now I did read it I forgot and the forum design sucks when people quote you or reply to your thread you don't get notification, most forum have that why don't we have this simple notification? anyway I see it now I did read it before but totally forgotten about it. Need to write it down my my note book

Hasn't it only been about a week?

Yeh ... the poorly designed forum is at fault.

Wait ...




How would notification have helped ? You said you DID READ IT.

To read intervals, you recognize the gap between notes -- hence how many keys above/below to jump to.

For example, C/E/G chord looks like:

---

---
*
---
*
---
*
---

---


So you start with finger 5 at C ... then recognize the gap from C to E is roughly X wide between fingers 5 and 3 and the roughly Y wide between fingers 3 and 1.

http://musicnotation.org/tutorials/reading-playing-music-intervals/

BTW, your phone autocorrection needs some help. I'm pretty sure the word is "jot" to quickly write notes.

Here was the original thread response

lols.

FWIW, my responses are more for people who are reading this thread and not because I think the OP will listen. While one should not throw pearls to swine, there may actually be those who will actually heed the advice given - even though the OP will not.

Yes, I know ... that is entirely valid.

It just drives me nuts that I see all these questions from the OP being answered in a very detailed manner and it appears none of those answers is ever digested or utilized in any way by the OP. It just spawns another question a day or two later with no apparent improvement or progress. Just more questions.

I guess it is time for the "ignore" option.

Cutestpuppy - I'm going to set out a basic principle, just so it's there for you.

In general, when as a student you practice, you can go after one of two goals.
i) You aim to acquire skills which will carry you forever afterward. For example, if eventually you can read music so that when you glance at some notes, your hand knows where to go, and maybe your ear hears it before you play it. Or your hands can move smoothly without strain so that you can produce the music you want to create, rather than struggling. I've described two broad skills: reading, technique.

ii) You aim to get at a piece of music as quickly as possible, because you'd like to be able to play it sooner, sooner, soonest - you'll use whatever tricks or shortcuts to get there. In this scenario, a person who can barely read may resort to memorizing the music by listening to examples and copying them, or memorizing it as soon as possible - with a missing technical skill they may bulldoze through it and hope to get at the skill on a rainy day. If that person always does this, or most of the time, the skill will never come in. Five years later his reading skill will stay as undeveloped as on the first, simply because he has never tried to develop it.

Things are rarely black and white. Even a student whose goals go 100% toward getting skills may want to get at a given piece of music early for some reasons, and take shortcuts for that piece of music. And in general there may be a balance. But it is important to be aware of i) and ii) and know what you are choosing, why, and what the results will be. It also depends why you do what, and how often.

So for example, you want to get at this piece of music as fast as possible. It is good that you are self-aware of this. Because of a weakness in reading, and because this piece with jump-around notes is particularly hard to read, you have created a crutch of writing out letter names. If you do this once in a while, it may be ok. But if it becomes a habit in order to circumvent a weakness in reading, then you may become dependent on the crutch and never learn to read. If reading ability is not important to you, and if you don't mind taking longer to first get at any new piece, then this is perfectly ok.

The other thing is how you use any given thing. For example, a student might use a letter name above a given note as a strategic reminder, and do various things so that eventually when he sees that written note, it associates with that piano key and he no longer needs that letter name. Another student might get so used to seeing letter names that he never learns to read notation - he may not even see that notation. Often the latter happens, which is why people are leery. Learning also involves what develops over time, like any skill. One way that "short cut teachers" who want to show (false) fast results mess up their students is by writing in finger numbers in predictable music that stays in "positions". The student does fine with that music, pleases his parents (when young), but is bewildered when he is totally at see with normal music. There are dangers, and some of us are aware of them.

If you are aware of these things, it will help you make choices.

@dmd blocked ignored. I don't live on the forum 24/7. What is wrong asking the same questions? No one asked you. No progress? Hahaha you don't know [censored]. *******.
Now I have written down the important stuff. No need to ask again even if I do that's because I have forgotten and feel free to delete the thread mods if I do repost twice. No one need to answer my questions and I appreciate to the people who have. More notes for me and more info in my brain and others who read this. Not everyone is master at the Piano like you.

Typed on iPhone

@Cutestpuppies, by all means ignore someone you don't wish to interact with. However you should also avoid using language that had to be censored. That's just unacceptably rude.

Why is it a problem if you post the same questions over and over? Because you waste the time of people who are trying to be helpful
Because you demonstrate repeatedly that you ask for help and then ignore it.

Keep it up and people will just stop replying to your posts.

LOL!

Keep what up? its not like Im asking the same question all the time.

All come at me ok. Whatever/

casinitaly didn't "come at you", she was giving - as many have done a lot of lately - good advice.

Are you really asking for advice that you intend to follow, or are you just waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear?

If you follow advice, you have no need to ask again. But you are even forgetting the good advice you've been given which to me, means it fell on deaf ears. That is what people are getting upset at.

Why do people assume I'm not taking in everyones advice of course I am otherwise I wouldn't be coming back here again. The info you guys give me are fantastic and never i could find that info on google so I am very happy that you guys and girls replying to my threads and giving me the best answers.

Or I wouldn't ask again like I said sometimes I forget and if I do just tell me and I will find the thread etc

Typed on iPhone

I suggest to stick with one thread, so people don't have to try to figure out from the start where you are. No need to start multiples.

Cutestpuppie, you're making me laugh! It's all wonderful--no teasing, just making me smile. My thoughts as always are random, so take it as you will.

First off, any and everything you've mentioned is "okay". If you are that hyped to learn piano, you will eventually learn any and everything you want. The timeframe, however? Meh, it depends. You're already getting familiar with the keys, but based on your own posts, you have huge gaps in your learning. I'm talking huge.

So to comment on some questions and comments:

YES, you can add the note names to the notes. After my very second lesson, my teacher told me not to write the note names. She said in her Russian accent, "you vill not learn this way!" A few days later, I spoke to a friend who learned piano as a child and she told me "write the letters, it will help". So a lot of pieces from my first year of learning have letters on the notes.

This is when I realized that there are different opinions to learning and sometimes it doesn't matter. Then other times it does. Over time/after the fact, you'll realize which is which.

When I go back to pieces that had the letters, I'm irritated because the letters are distracting. I'm more interested in the fingering, tempo, clapping, beats, etc. The notes...meh, not so much.

Concerning Alfred's AIO. You completed it in a week? Okay, great...awesome! But based on this same paragraph you wrote, you still don't know simple things taught in that book. So yeah, you flipped pages and played a few pieces, but you pretty much wasted time and/or money on that book. Learning piano is a marathon, not a race. Not knowing intervals, note names, etc. gives people the impression that you didn't read the book at all.

To be honest, Alfred's isn't for everyone. I personally despise it. I'm only committed because I started, and well daggonit, I'm gonna finish it.

You love speeding through books: Look at "Fundamentals of Theory" by Keith Snell. Using only theory books will speed up your knowledge base and give you a reason for why music is the way it is. The books are very easy to do, and from what you've mentioned previously, you can do Level 1 in a day, and maybe even skip levels (i.e., 1...3...5...etc.). I think by doing this you can wrap your head around things a bit better.

Knowing a lot of theory will not help you play the piano; it will help you to analyze pieces. I know theory far beyond what I can play at this time (even on the organ, let alone piano).

I believe you are wrong about this. See Forum Help for Watch Lists.

I posted this because I would hate for others to be misinformed.

And if you don't bother to find Forum Help, it's not my problem. Just like it's not yours if you play something wrong because you don't have a teacher and have actually blown thru a beginning book without learning from it

I disagree on this one.

Someone who's learned theory will be able to play chords unknown, augmented, diminished... That person will understand how a piece is supposed to go based on key signatures. And much more.

Some people--not everyone of course--need to understand the why of something. Learning the formula of theory is equivalent to teaching someone to fish.

Reading a thread like this, makes me better understand the methods and the reasons of the taskmasters of the past.
They were only interested in, and achieved fantastic results with the students that were capable.

I think it would be great if we eased up. OP joined a club of marathoners, and he's ready to do sprints! That's not a bad thing at all, just requires some direction and channeling. That's what this forum is for, correct? It's obvious that we're all capable.

Also, OP seems to be a fairly young person who expects the general style of interaction on this forum to be similar to the rest of the online places he/she frequents.
It's really not, this forum is an outlier in the online world. Mostly in a great way - polite, thoughtful, supportive.

Cutestpuppie, imagine you have left the students' union and arrived at a village fete :-)

Factual and even true to a certain extent but it hides the real truth and it misleads. Knowing the theory won't help the physical aspect of playing the piano but the physical aspect is only a part of the story and theory helps with the other parts.

We take information from the printed page, we can't make sense of that information without the theoretical understanding of the notation system. We can't add to that information the parts of the music that aren't on the page, but theory can help flesh out those details, make musical sense of them and help us understand how to play what's on the printed page.

A lot of theoretical knowledge can't overcome the absence of a finger or the absence of intelligent application of that knowledge but a musical realisation is helped by having a lot of theory and therefore it DOES help you play the piano.

Of course; If you ask me 'play a Cdim chord', then I know how to do it. However, if your music reading is close to perfect, you basically don't need to know anything. You just play the notes and put in the expressions that are on the page, and done.

You won't know what you're playing; it's like singing in a language you don't know. It still can sound good.



Yes, and I'm one of them. I'm *SCARED* of sheet music. Sometimes I see runs in 16's or something like, and I think: "I can't play that." Then I take a look at it, and it turns out to be a two octave D-scale upward, followed by a few arpeggio's in D-F#-A-D, and then ending on a D chord A-D-F#.

Then I think: "Oh. Why didn't you SAY so?"

I think the comparison is better if we say "It's like speaking fluently although you can't analyze what you are saying grammatically".

By the way, we are spamming Cuties's thread big time LOL. I personally think we are misbehaving more than him...

Every piece of information or principle of music that you know will, in some way, help you...either to play a piece, or understand more about how to interpret it.

Its all good.

I'm with Jazzy on this one. I always say music theory is something you do. It explains the music you are playing, and it is a tool that can not only help you better understand what your'e playing (analysis), but it can also make it much easier to get to the point of being able to play a piece quickly. The better your theory - which encompasses many other things than harmonic analysis - the more easily you will learn pieces.

I've always liked grammar, both Spanish and English, but for me music theory is now as if I wanted to study English Grammar when the only thing I can say is "Hello, what's your name?" - "What time is it?"

I can see I'll have to learn theory some day if I want to be able to improvise! (This hurts a bit ).

Many come here for psycho therapy.

In relation to theory: sometimes music theory looks like explaining Literature!

Theory helps me a lot with reading and learning music. It cuts down learning time for me significantly because I always analyze music before learning. I'm just as your level too. But I think it helps a lot to learn it early instead of waiting for later. Like you said, I may only know "what is your name?" but by knowing grammar, I know that it is a type of question that require the response to be more than just yes/no. So I know what to expect next time someone ask me similar question although I may not have the vocabulary to understand it, at least, I know what I need to response.

You are right: we are learning a bit of theory too (me only what I need to play and what rubs off by reading the forum). But I can't yet understand a lot of what I read on theory.

Others love to give one-liners that generally make somebody look deficient or stupid.

That's where theory helps. If you know the theory, you know that all those 16th's put together do in fact say so. Music is full of patterns, theory is the key to understanding those patterns -- and recognizing them quickly enough to be useful.

Theory also helps a lot with finding alternatives to what's written that my hands can actually do. I use a lot of different inversions to avoid places where my wide fingers won't fit between the black keys.

I've been playing from lead sheets / fake books for 25 years (with a few very big multi-year gaps in between), so you need to know theory to make something out of them.

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the theory which I do know is much more advanced than I believe it to be, and that it just seems 'basic music stuff' because I've been using it for so long.

At the same time, I'm also quite sure that someone who graduated with a BSc. or MSc. in music knows theory that I can't even imagine right now.

I haven't read all three pages but I'm just going to throw my experience out there. Writing the notes on music is considered a bad habit. I've tried not to do it however the problem I've run into in the past is not that I don't know which notes on the staff correspond to which notes on the piano but that I couldn't look at the staff and know what line or space the note was in without inspecting each one. I've hot a vision issue going on with reading music and so I would write notes in. Not all of them since some are obvious but a lot of them. I haven't been playing for a while just now ready to get back into it. My vision has changed a bit since I was last playing so maybe this will be easier than before or maybe I'll go back to my bad habit. Whatever it takes to learn the next song is what I'll do.

In relation to theory...I love it. I had absolutely no knowledge of music notation 40 years ago when I first started piano lessons as an adult. I started in a David Carr Glover Primer book that began with two note pieces. I was humble and didn't mind starting in a child's book, but I wanted to know the language of music. I asked my teacher for supplementary material so I could gain more knowledge of theory. She provided me with books explaining chords and keys. I was totally fascinated by the subject matter. Ten years later I enrolled in college classes and excelled in theory and composition. I know it is now helping me tremendously in my playing even though I hardly touched a piano for more than 30 years before I took it up again. Being able to completely analyze a piece of music before you play it for the first time might not help with the mechanics of playing it, but at least you understand all the intricacies of it. I can "hear" a piece in my head well before I attempt to play it. For example, I have pieces that I've composed that I can not play up to tempo because of a lack of mechanical skill, but I can take a blank score and rewrite the same piece without looking at the original. On another note, I have friends who are accomplished amateur pianists who have scant knowledge of theory. I believe it all depends on whatever your passion is. For me, theory drives me and gives me the desire and the ability to play better and better all the time.

And to answer cuttestpuppie's original question... I would only write as few letter names or finger numbers in the score as you can get by with. Don't allow yourself to become dependent on finger numbers especially.

Little Blue Engine,
Glad to know there's another special educator on the forum. Agree...I don't like rap or heavy metal much either, but enjoy most all other types. Also try piano glasses for reading the score if you already wear bifocals. My piano glasses helped me a lot. It was amazing when I first put them on at looked at my music.

I'll chime in with another vote for piano glasses!

I wear bifocals, and have three pairs of single-vision piano glasses (and piano turns out to be the same distance as my computer screen): one at work for the computer, one at home for the piano, and one in my piano bag so it reliably gets to lessons with me without being forgotten at home.

I have a particular pair of glasses that works great for the computer I'm going to try out at the piano. They used to be uncomfortable at the piano but then I never used to use them for computer back then either and they work really well at the computer now. I've been away from playing for a bit so I'll be trying some new ways of doing things and see what happens. I kind of quit playing after a head injury at work because at first I just couldn't handle the intense sound from the piano it was a sensory overload and then I was having concentration problems and at that point just got out of the habit. I'm going to try to get back in the habit now.