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Posted By: PaJaC Yamaha C7X vs highest models of upright pianos - 07/15/21 09:43 PM
Hi!

I am fresh about keyboards and I wouldn't even be able to play these instruments well in stores. I had only just started reading a book on piano building and learned from it that normal grand pianos (i.e. over 220cm/88inch) should always sound better than their upright brothers (longer strings instead of thicker wraps of bass strings). Now I have a question for you as experienced musicians: What is your opinion on this subject? Does a Yamaha C7X like this beat upright pianos of the highest quality? These are models such as: Steinway K132, C. Bechstein concert 8, Bosendorfer, Grand Upright 130, Grotrian Concertino, Bluthner B, Sauter Master Class 130

Let me know what you think grin
Generally, yes.
Absolutely, yes.
C7X is quite a large piano so perhaps this one




https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/chernobieff/
Originally Posted by tre corda
C7X is quite a large piano so perhaps this one

https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/chernobieff/

Tre corda, good point! If we're going to compare a C7X with an upright, then this should be the upright we use as the comparison point.

Otherwise, there's no point, the C7X wins, hands down.

Although, as I think about it, if we're going to compare a C7X with a 7′ 2″ tall upright, at that point, it's probably just two different sound experiences and it doesn't make sense to compare two different styles of sound production (i.e., vertical vs. horizontal).
rather, I meant the best possible piano up to $ 50,000 rather than why the grand piano will win, but I see that anyway the answers are unambiguous wink
A Yamaha C7X would for me beat any upright no matter who made it. I’m a big fan of Yamaha C7s and C7Xs.
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Originally Posted by tre corda
C7X is quite a large piano so perhaps this one

https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/chernobieff/

Tre corda, good point! If we're going to compare a C7X with an upright, then this should be the upright we use as the comparison point.

Otherwise, there's no point, the C7X wins, hands down.

Although, as I think about it, if we're going to compare a C7X with a 7′ 2″ tall upright, at that point, it's probably just two different sound experiences and it doesn't make sense to compare two different styles of sound production (i.e., vertical vs. horizontal).
True for some people a high end upright may be more desirable.There are certain qualities that are truly admirable (do not ask 😉 for the sake of peace) On the other hand a C2 is an excellent piano and a more desirable instrument for most
people.My C2 is getting a little on in years.It still is a good piano, but has its problems as my technician says.It was rather neglected by the original owner.....
When it comes to good semi concert grands like Yamaha and probably Kawai all I can say is yes they are incredible instruments.
So yes a C7 or a C7X for me rather than a Bechstein Concert 8,
thank you. 😊
C7/X vs any upright, the C7, or any other C series piano wins. The grand action also wins hands down for me, and although there are excellent actions in all of the pianos you've mentioned, and the Yamaha uprights as well (YUS5, SE132, SU7 for example), the actions of the CX series and up are incredible.
Cool! I am very pleased with the large response to the thread, because many people decide to go for this price range and some don't have to worry about space. I was very curious about yours views as peoples, who played a whole lot of different pianos and can better define what should be better. I always thought that Yamaha is a half-measure, something that wants to be a decent instrument, but it cannot be, but you dispelled my doubts about this company in this price range smile
The answer to the question depends on what one means by "beat". Would the C7 action be better than the actions on the very high end uprights? Yes, but the actions on the very high end uprights would probably be very good and more than adequate for almost all non professionals. Would the tone on the C7 be better? The C7's longer bass strings would be a advantage, but it's also possible that some would prefer the tone of the high end uprights to the tone of the C7. Not everyone likes the tone of a Yamaha(or any make of piano).

In summary, the longer strings of the C7, grand stye action, together with the general quality of Yamaha would be hard for even the best vertical to "beat" but for some people the overall tone of the highest end verticals together with their supremely high quality might make them the choice for others. Quality of the sound in the bass is only one factor in evaluating a piano.
I would rather have smallest C1X than any upright, no matter how high-end.
I know this question is hypothetical, but if we are talking about pianos out of context of a situation you’ll get one answer and in context another.

Example: if your room is small, a grand piano would be cumbersome, and you’d have no option but to go for an upright or digital, which is where hybrids come in. For musicians with limited space who don’t want to compromise on quality of tone, the top range upright is probably their best bet, and for pianists who can’t live without a grand action but have no space then the hybrid is probably the best option.

But if the question is, does a Yamaha C7X have more musical potential than a high end upright and by that I mean does it have a greater dynamic range and wider tonal palette and better action(depending on the technician of course) then the answer would have to be yes.
If I’m ever forced to downsize my piano, I think I’d be looking for a Yamaha C1X Disklavier or a Steinway M with Spirio.
There is tone, and then there is tonal beauty. Some grands and some uprights have a tonal beauty that is incomparable. Most have just tone, and some have awesome power...but beauty...if you can get that too...wow!

Peter Grey Piano Doctor
Originally Posted by j&j
If I’m ever forced to downsize my piano, I think I’d be looking for a Yamaha C1X Disklavier or a Steinway M with Spirio.
.....me too! ....need to downsize to a steinways m....😄
J&J, You are talking about size.To me "downsize" would mean "economically" as well. At least that's the way I always think about it.I get what you mean. I would love a Steinways M too!
Originally Posted by P W Grey
There is tone, and then there is tonal beauty. Some grands and some uprights have a tonal beauty that is incomparable. Most have just tone, and some have awesome power...but beauty...if you can get that too...wow!

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

True and that can be more to do with the magic of an individual piano
Originally Posted by tre corda
J&J, You are talking about size.To me "downsize" would mean "economically" as well. At least that's the way I always think about it.I get what you mean. I would love a Steinways M too!

😁 This is what it will take for my heirs to put me in Adult Living. A Steinway M with Spirio.
Originally Posted by P W Grey
There is tone, and then there is tonal beauty. Some grands and some uprights have a tonal beauty that is incomparable. Most have just tone, and some have awesome power...but beauty...if you can get that too...wow!
I think power is only relevant in a concert hall and beauty is quite personal/subjective.
Originally Posted by PaJaC
Hi!

I am fresh about keyboards and I wouldn't even be able to play these instruments well in stores. I had only just started reading a book on piano building and learned from it that normal grand pianos (i.e. over 220cm/88inch) should always sound better than their upright brothers (longer strings instead of thicker wraps of bass strings). Now I have a question for you as experienced musicians: What is your opinion on this subject? Does a Yamaha C7X like this beat upright pianos of the highest quality? These are models such as: Steinway K132, C. Bechstein concert 8, Bosendorfer, Grand Upright 130, Grotrian Concertino, Bluthner B, Sauter Master Class 130

Let me know what you think grin

This is just my preference, but I'd rather have a top Yamaha or Kawai upright like an SU7 or YUS-5 or K-500 or K-800 than a Steinway K32 or Bosendorfer 130.
I think it depends on your budget and space, that's all. Someone who has just gotten opinions from a book, as noted originally, doesn't play enough to make a difference. Because if you didn't have your own opinion from playing various types of pianos, someone isn't playing enough or that advanced that it matters that much.
Originally Posted by ChristinaW
I think it depends on your budget and space, that's all. Someone who has just gotten opinions from a book, as noted originally, doesn't play enough to make a difference. Because if you didn't have your own opinion from playing various types of pianos, someone isn't playing enough or that advanced that it matters that much.

This is very true, your own ears are a better source of information regarding good tone than any book.
The C7X is an extremely high quality piano, so the size comparison is fairly straightforward. If you were talking about a badly made piano the same size as the C7X, it would have a harder time competing with a high quality smaller piano. Pianos of any size can sound bad, although I don't know of any current large grand that isn't well made.
Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by tre corda
J&J, You are talking about size.To me "downsize" would mean "economically" as well. At least that's the way I always think about it.I get what you mean. I would love a Steinways M too!

😁 This is what it will take for my heirs to put me in Adult Living. A Steinway M with Spirio.
Final proof of Alzheimer's?
@PaJaC What do you think about this Yamaha?

Originally Posted by johnstaf
The C7X is an extremely high quality piano, so the size comparison is fairly straightforward. If you were talking about a badly made piano the same size as the C7X, it would have a harder time competing with a high quality smaller piano. Pianos of any size can sound bad, although I don't know of any current large grand that isn't well made.

I think that's right, actually, and even the concert grands coming out of China are very impressive. For me, they're not as good as the major more expensive famous makers instruments, but they're extremely impressive for the money, well designed with good quality materials.

Originally Posted by Withindale
@PaJaC What do you think about this Yamaha?


I don't know if you've spotted it yet but that's digital sound. This sounds like the piano voice of a older generation silent piano.
Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
I don't know if you've spotted it yet but that's digital sound. This sounds like the piano voice of a older generation silent piano.

Yes, I wondered about the recording. Its another dimension to the OP's "I am fresh about keyboards". Pianists, genres, instruments, rooms, acoustics, electronics, technicians, neighbours, budgets.

Here for comparison is Fibich's Poeme on a 7' Yamaha grand:

Okay so you tempt me to ask....Why?
Ian
it's hard for me to say. It sounds clear which indicates a high amount of overtones which is definitely a plus. Instruments are only better when we can compare them to something. Otherwise we get used to them and they become just good smile

Listen to these two Petrof. They also has potential. Of course they are much taller because they are 140-150cm / 55-59 inch


Originally Posted by Withindale
Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
I don't know if you've spotted it yet but that's digital sound. This sounds like the piano voice of a older generation silent piano.

Yes, I wondered about the recording. Its another dimension to the OP's "I am fresh about keyboards". Pianists, genres, instruments, rooms, acoustics, electronics, technicians, neighbours, budgets.

Here for comparison is Fibich's Poeme on a 7' Yamaha grand:
Please don't throw any more materials from this Yamaha here, because I fell in love with its purity and fullness of sound and now I will get sick on her 3hearts
The Petrofs may have something going! (Of course, frequency response of mics, etc., can influence some of this.)
Those Petrofs sound amazing! They are obviously restored older instruments.Of course as Maestro pointed out we do not know the true quality because of the recordings.The treble though seemed not powerfull enough in the one the 55-59"piano.(Chopin Prelude.in f# min "virtuosic Chopin Prelude")
Well, unfortunately we will not make a grand piano out of a upright piano, but their clarity and fullness are immediately catchy grin
Originally Posted by Beemer
Okay so you tempt me to ask....Why?
Ian

If you are referring to my "Here for comparison is Fibich's Poeme on a 7' Yamaha grand" the short answer is "Why not?"

Having heard Clark Bryan I looked on YouTube to see if anyone had recorded a selection of Fibich's 500 piano pieces.

Harry Völker came up on his Yamaha and I put it up on the spur of the moment (despite the recording). My thought was a good upright is good enough for many a good pianist. I am sure you and many other members would agree. For sure, my Schiedmayer is more than I will ever need.

The recording on the S7X was not intended to drive PaJaC to tears.
Originally Posted by PaJaC
Well, unfortunately we will not make a grand piano out of a upright piano, but their clarity and fullness are immediately catchy grin
I agree! It certainly sounded far better than many grands I have
heard.The action seems excellent as well.It is always better to actually play the instrument to really know if it is the piano that you should buy.Perhaps the treble in the Prelude sounded
much more powerful in real life.
I would choose many cheaper grands over expensive uprights any day, for the feel, the sound and the presence - if space wasn't an issue.
I'm quite happy with very cheap historic grands - lots of fun and when well regulated and voiced, I still think they outperform todays modern upright-- some of which are 10, 20... 2000 times more expensive in some cases.
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