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#899536 04/18/05 09:36 PM
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Holy cow, you guys... knock it off!

Larry, that's about the cheapest shot I've seen, and kathyk if you think you're going to win any arguments here you're delusional.

Right or wrong has nothing to do with anything at this point. Go for a walk and cool off, both of you.

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#899537 04/18/05 09:36 PM
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To Mark: I, for one, would have *no* problem with that whatsoever.

Nina, believe it or not, I'm not in the least hot at the moment. But thanks for the concern.

#899538 04/18/05 09:37 PM
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Then I apologize for the crack about your mother. I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

But I still wouldn't **** down your neck if your guts were on fire. You're an evil woman.

#899539 04/18/05 09:39 PM
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The pot calling the kettle black...


Pramberger JP-185 Bubinga
Kawai CP155
Yamaha P-120
#899540 04/18/05 09:41 PM
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Good night. Way past my bedtime. Hope CR is still here tomorrow morning.

#899541 04/18/05 09:47 PM
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Larry,

I'm shaking my head. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Actually, I laughed, then I cried.

Kathy is NOT evil. She is intelligent, passionate, strong-willed, and reminds me a lot of you.

And I hope you know how very fond I am of you.


Shoe!

F.
#899542 04/18/05 09:54 PM
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Friday, I *do* know you are fond of me. And I am equally fond of you. I wish you had posted more. But Kathy *is* evil. The things she wrote about me several months ago were about the worst attack I've ever seen anyone have to suffer. Intelligence without common sense is worthless. Passion should not be confused with win at any cost dirty fighting. Strong willed should not be confused with pig headedness. And she is *nothing* like me.

But I do like you a lot...... smile

#899543 04/18/05 10:12 PM
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Good God Almighty, Larry.

A woman would have had to shoot me in the head and left me for dead before I'd say to her what you said to kathyk...

#899544 04/18/05 10:25 PM
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I havent been here all that long (or consistently), but didnt I read that way back when, before my time, the CR was created for the very reason that too much off topic material was littering the other fora? So the CR was created as a sink for such material, thus purging the others? Wont it turn back up over there if this room is eliminated?

I cant say I have any answers (or even fully grasp the problem), but if the current state is considered unacceptable, clearly something must be done. Over in the "apologize" thread there's people indicating they wont change a thing about their behaviors, even amidst this crisis. (the same people being identified as the problem by some). I'm not here to pass judgement or indicate blame, but I would have to agree that nothing will change as is.

I think the members only room sounds like the best solution. I cant really think of a downside to that. But closing this reminds me of the closing of the mental institutions in the 80s. Those people gotta go somewhere, and once they get there, you wish they were back where they came from.


I was born the year Glenn Gould stop playing concerts. Coincidence?
#899545 04/18/05 10:39 PM
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Chill people. Please.


For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com
#899546 04/18/05 11:27 PM
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You guys make it sound like Frank is shutting down the entire site.

He's not. He's closing 1 of many sections. The one that is the least relevant to the mission of Piano World.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#899547 04/19/05 03:20 AM
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It's certainly *not* as simple as that.

Let's take my example. I came here originally wanting some information about a restoration I was having done. I wanted to know all sorts of things, and I knew very little about pianos to be honest, but I knew a lot less about Americans and their views on the world. I knew even less than that about New York. I guess like many people obviously do, I got the information I wanted but got caught up in some of the coffee room discussions. I was then hooked, and rather than just disappearing into the ether and never darkening PW's door again, I posted in the CR, and in the other fora. I like to think I can offer people some perspective on the UK and I've hugely appreciated the perspective on the US I've gained. I also like to think that I've been able to offer at least a viewpoint on piano restorations, including my opinion on the use of French polish. I can talk about my own piano and of course you've all been here for me while I went through the awful pain of having my piano taken away from me for 18 months while it was "restored" and the ensuing problems. All of this I took and contributed towards because of the package that PW offers - not just strictly piano-based discussions, but everything else that goes on. I love the piano for sure, but I'm not a professional pianist, I don't live and breathe music, but here on PW I've found people ranging from the mildly interested in music to full-blown concert pianists. It's an amazing perspective I'm privileged to have had but I fear that I and many other people, if the CR is consigned to history, may not as readily tend to stick around to find out how much use this place really is.

PW has synergy, it really is greater than the mere sum of its parts and while the CR has its problems, no doubt, it *is* an important part of the site's synergy. I for one will lament its passing especially as I still believe the moderators could have turned it around, assuming the members were willing to accept some control. There's another thread on here where things have got nasty and while I like and respect both posters in many ways, I'd have done the virtual banging the heads together and suspended them (banning is *too* permanent especially for otherwise incredibly valuable members). I'm just sure this would have worked in the long-run...

#899548 04/19/05 04:22 AM
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I gave my money to support the CR. Now I'm kind of p***ed that I did...


While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.
#899549 04/19/05 04:45 AM
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Well, I'll start.

I apologize for what I've done to contribute to a nasty atmosphere. I don't believe I started that atmosphere, and I think there's evidence even in this thread that I wasn't the main contributor to that atmosphere, but I did aggravate the situation. For that, I apologize to Frank. Frank has extended his hospitality, and many of us (myself included) have abused that hospitality in ways that he has asked us not to do.

That said, I think Jack has a fair point about the contributions. Many of those who contributed did so primarily because of the Coffee Room. That may be wrongheaded, since it's supposed to be a piano forum, but that is the way it is, we made those contributions in good faith and Frank accepted them in good faith. He has the legal right to do anything he wants, but it's certainly not in the spirit of things to shut us down after taking those contributions.

A final word about alternative fora. Larry said everyone was welcome at his new forum. Somehow, I don't think "everyone" applies to yhabpo. And, sooner or later, it wouldn't apply to me, or some others of us, either.

I'd rather Frank fixed the problems here. If the problem is pictures and family-friendliness, why not just ban pictures entirely? Just a thought.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
#899550 04/19/05 04:50 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Siddhartha:
But closing this reminds me of the closing of the mental institutions in the 80s. Those people gotta go somewhere, and once they get there, you wish they were back where they came from.
Sid, you are a gem!
laugh

#899551 04/19/05 04:57 AM
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Jack Frost.

I am disappointed in your analysis and some of your comments. I normally don't respond to you. You generally don't require it. How can you possibly imply that only Right Wingers are unpleasant or vitriolic. It takes a lot of gall to ignore all the stuff put out by the Left. You talk of our being Blind.... It is certainly the pot calling the kettle black.

I have posted very little on this forum lately. First it is too easy to get carried away and say things. Second I find a large number of hostile and increasingly arrogant Knights of the Left out there and life is too short to listen to them.

#899552 04/19/05 05:01 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by johnmoonlight:
I gave my money to support the CR. Now I'm kind of p***ed that I did...
Ditto mad

#899553 04/19/05 05:31 AM
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Jack, you asked why I hadn't publicly called Larry, or Jolly, or others when they went over the top - like with Larry's comments earlier in this thread, which were reprehensible. The truth is that I have at times, publicly and privately. It's true that everyone is slow to condemn those with whom they usually agree; that's human nature. It's true that I should have said things at times when I didn't.

It's also true with you. You usually have given a pass on publicly criticizing the fouls of those with whom you agree more - and there have been plenty of opportunities to do so, in equal measure to the right-wingers, even without leaving your own family unit. I'm not criticizing you for it; like I said, it's human nature. So, if you want to try to convince Frank to keep the CR, fine. But don't try to dump blame for Frank's current decision to kill it at the feet of three or four people who simply disagree with you - or by extension, at my feet because I simply didn't condemn them more.

The truth is, if you go through my posting history, I usually gave passes to the personal slurs and attacks of BOTH lefties and righties. I might have shook my head at the comments, but I'd usually - not always, but usually - try to discuss only the issues and steer clear of personal attacks.

In fact, you might remember that shortly after your arrival here, I started a thread called "I denounce it!" or something similar, where I tried to get people to do exactly what you're criticizing me for not having done. You might remember that the thread basically went over like a lead balloon. It runs against human nature to do it. But I tried to do it then, and other times. More times than many, maybe more times than you. If your topic is an argument to save the CR, go for it. But if your topic is trying to assess blame and find those responsible for its problems, don't forget to do a simple mirror check at the same time.

To quote the great philosopher Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is US."

#899554 04/19/05 06:08 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by fmelliott:
Jack Frost.

I am disappointed in your analysis and some of your comments. I normally don't respond to you. You generally don't require it. How can you possibly imply that only Right Wingers are unpleasant or vitriolic. It takes a lot of gall to ignore all the stuff put out by the Left. You talk of our being Blind.... It is certainly the pot calling the kettle black.

I have posted very little on this forum lately. First it is too easy to get carried away and say things. Second I find a large number of hostile and increasingly arrogant Knights of the Left out there and life is too short to listen to them.
Mr. Elliot - I was recently in Senegal, on Ile de Goree, off the coast of Dakar. It made me think of your signature line.

Have a nice day.


If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?
#899555 04/19/05 06:46 AM
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This, from Frank's update today:

"I've tried for two years to clean up the CR, it hasn't worked."

Three questions, Frank:

How long ago did you appoint moderators?

Were the moderators given a chance to do their job?

Did the moderators even know what their job was supposed to be? (I reference Cindy's post when I asked whether the moderators would be dealing with uncivil behavior, and her response, that she didn't know yet.)

I understand your frustration, but honestly I don't think you've given the moderator system time or a fair opportunity to do its job.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
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