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Jolly Offline OP
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TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

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Originally posted by Jolly:
Yes, folks, things are changing...

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050211/D885VIEG0.html
Do you think the actions of this Administration and the Congress over the past several years and those currently proposed to consolidate more power on the Federal level increasing the control of the central government and denying states their individual sovereignty is a good thing?

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This particular story is about multi-state class action lawsuits, and requiring them to be heard at the federal level. Seems like a compelling federal interest to me. Why do you think keeping them at a state level, and having the citizens of one state being bound by the actions of another state's judiciary is a good thing?

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It is certainly a good thing for the rich and powerful.


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It is a bad thing for the lawyers.

And that is a good thing.

Good point jkeene! thumb

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Originally posted by jkeene:
This particular story is about multi-state class action lawsuits, and requiring them to be heard at the federal level. Seems like a compelling federal interest to me. Why do you think keeping them at a state level, and having the citizens of one state being bound by the actions of another state's judiciary is a good thing?
Do you disagree with the Constitution's full faith and credit provisions when one state's citizens are given a benefit by that state's legislature or its courts? Should the full faith and credit provisions not apply to benefits granted by a state court?

Rather than increasing the centralization of power, might it not be better then to pass a law which states that state-filed class action suits can only be filed on behalf of the citizens of that state? Would this not resolve your concern and still limit the central government's power?

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Originally posted by RZ:

Rather than increasing the centralization of power, might it not be better then to pass a law which states that state-filed class action suits can only be filed on behalf of the citizens of that state? Would this not resolve your concern and still limit the central government's power?
That has some merit, although it ought to be coupled with a damages restriction to a maximum not to exceed the unitary tax perspective of the defendant's in-state revenues derived from the specific product named in the suit (phrasing?). Otherwise, you still have venue shopping, and the out of state employees of the defendant corporation are still subject to the whims of another state's judiciary.

Now, if it's just a local company being sued in the same state, state court seems like the right place. But a Mississippi plaintiff that wants to go after all of GM's US revenues should really have to make their case in federal court.

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I think forcing class action suits to go to federal court is an excellent idea. It eliminates the possibility of 50-state forum shopping.

The one potential wrinkle is that there is a 1985 (?) Supreme Court case ruling that class action suits may not be heard in federal court, and that they must be filed in state court.

Presumably, that ruling won't stand in the face of this law (when enacted and signed by the President). Otherwise, the law would make class action suits totally impossible, which would not be a good thing.

But I'm assuming that common sense will prevail, and that if Congress passes a law requiring class actions to go to federal instead of state court that the Supreme Court's ruling will be modified as a result.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
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Shouldn't my NY-issued pistol permit be valid in all states under this provision?

Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
Do you disagree with the Constitution's full faith and credit provisions when one state's citizens are given a benefit by that state's legislature or its courts? Should the full faith and credit provisions not apply to benefits granted by a state court?


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Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
I think forcing class action suits to go to federal court is an excellent idea. It eliminates the possibility of 50-state forum shopping.
The Justice Department does this when it files both civil and criminal suits. Do you think the central government should deny its citizens the same sort of legal strategy that it uses?

Do you see the government's rights as more important than the citizens?

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Originally posted by ny1911:
[QB] Shouldn't my NY-issued pistol permit be valid in all states under this provision?
The reason it is not is because the central government has passed laws that do not require other states to recognize such a permit.

Do you support more actions of this sort by the central government that deny state sovereignty, deny citizens rights and limit the full faith and credit provisions of the Constitution?

Would it not be better to remove those restrictions that already exist rather than adding new ones?

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States should not be allowed to pass laws that are unconstitutional.

"Gun control" laws are unconstitutional.

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Originally posted by jkeene:
That has some merit, although it ought to be coupled with a damages restriction to a maximum not to exceed the unitary tax perspective of the defendant's in-state revenues derived from the specific product named in the suit (phrasing?).
Do you think this proposal is a better one than the one currently in Congress?

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Originally posted by markjpcs:
States should not be allowed to pass laws that are unconstitutional.

"Gun control" laws are unconstitutional.
The US Supreme Court has said they are constitutional. Thus, under our system of government, they are.

Do you disagree with the US Supreme Court's ability to define what is constitutional and what is not?

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I don't believe the Supreme court has weighed in on 2nd Amendment issues.


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We don't have a clear interpretation of a lot of the constitution by today's Supreme Court. It's almost like they are afraid to deal with the real issues and refuse to hear a lot of cases brought to them that could clarify so much...

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Originally posted by ny1911:
I don't believe the Supreme court has weighed in on 2nd Amendment issues.
If and when they do, if they hold gun control laws to be constitutional under the 2nd Amendment, would you accept this and work to further the intent of the Constitution? Or would you oppose the US Constitution?

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Originally posted by RZ:
Quote
Originally posted by jkeene:
[b] That has some merit, although it ought to be coupled with a damages restriction to a maximum not to exceed the unitary tax perspective of the defendant's in-state revenues derived from the specific product named in the suit (phrasing?).
Do you think this proposal is a better one than the one currently in Congress? [/b]
Probably not. It seems more complex than necessary, and couples a tax perspective to lawsuit outcomes.

Do you have some opinions that you'd like to share, or do you function mostly as a question lobber?

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Originally posted by jkeene:
Probably not. It seems more complex than necessary, and couples a tax perspective to lawsuit outcomes.
Valid.

Quote
Do you have some opinions that you'd like to share, or do you function mostly as a question lobber?
Just trying to understand what people are saying, the premises on which they base their views and the implications of their ideas.

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Jolly Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
Quote
Originally posted by ny1911:
[b] I don't believe the Supreme court has weighed in on 2nd Amendment issues.
If and when they do, if they hold gun control laws to be constitutional under the 2nd Amendment, would you accept this and work to further the intent of the Constitution? Or would you oppose the US Constitution? [/b]
Fair question.

The Second Amendment is basically the RESET button for the Constitution. Common sense gun legislation is certainly allowed within the confines of the Amendment.

The day, however, that a group of gentlemen in black robes decree that the Amendment basically means nothing, and that firearms owned by law-abiding citizens are to be considered contraband...well, I guess that falls under "enemies both foreign, and domestic ".

We press the RESET button.


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