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Joined: Dec 2004
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Quote
Originally posted by mikhailoh:
Another thing we might want to consider here before we make demands is that Piano World is a business completely separate from the forums.
Perhaps I don't understand the relationship of the two. My assumption has been that Frank owns pianoworld.com which hosts the PW forums as well as an online store. As such the forums are simply another revenue stream for pianoworld.com through our memberships. Am I wrong?

Just curious.


Mark

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I head straight for the ignore button. smile

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Rick, please don't go. I can understand how you feel and I have become increasingly selective regarding what I read. Whenever I see your name I read your post because I know you have a lot to offer.

In support of Frank, Frank would have to be sitting at his computer all day reading everything in order to figure out who the bs artists and sock puppets are. Frankly, at this point I am clueless who most of the trouble makers are.

Don't leave just but become selective. PW has a lot to offer but you have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff very quickly, it is no different than any other information source.

Regards,
Steve


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

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Mark,

Piano Forum only started to accept voluntary financial support from members late in 2004. Rapid growth of membership and activity caused hosting costs to rise beyond what Piano World could afford out of pocket. It should be noted that the members themselves brought up the idea of contributing based on the value they place on PF. There are threads regarding these events if you care to serach for them.


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Michael,

Thanx for the explination. Lets hope the membership continues to increase and it can provide a little extra in Frank's pocket to make up for what came out of the same pocket in the past. thumb


Mark

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Get rid of "iyi bir piano"? How could we?

I think he said something sensible once...if I can find it.

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Quote
Originally posted by Rick Clark:
copied from "Perzina-excellent" thread:
<SNIP>

I am very close to following lb out of here and I suspect some other long-time contributors are too.

And as much as I like Frank, and as highly as I think about him, I have to say that if he has no interest in getting rid of weasels like iyi bir piano (and others), then he has no interest in keeping me around.

So that's it then. iyi bir piano, or Rick Clark? I still like you either way, Frank, but it's decision time.

Regards,
/qb
I don't see how throwing a tantrum like this is helpful. We are all grownups here and can decide for ourselves if we want to disregard iyi bir's posts or not.

Did you post this to see how much pleading you would receive? Does it make you feel better now?

Really - this is a free speech forum. We would appreciate a comment from the Sages that someone like iyi is a schill. But really - sales is sales. We all know that when you listen to somebody who is selling they are resorting to any tactic they can in order to succeed. In the end it's the money they bring home that counts.

Come to New York Rick and we'll toughen you up a bit... laugh Frank does not need to protect you.

Why not stick to the technical forum and avoid all of the sales shtick in the piano forum. I have a feeling you will feel more clean.


Regards,

Grotriman
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iyi has been warned countless times. Additionally, he adds nothing of value to the threads he posts in. He is a definative troll.

Rick, on the other hand, is a long time poster who contributes greatly with his thoughts. He is one of the "rocks" of PW.

I have asked Frank B. to ban iyi several times. I hope this time he acts.


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
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Gman,

If it gives you self-satisfaction to call me needy, and a p**sy, it's no skin off my back. Twist my meanings around all you want if it gives you pleasure.

But let's get a couple things straight: My skin is as thick as it comes, and I've got several years of PW postings and several before that on RMMP to prove it. Anyone can read my postings and decide for themselves.

And this is NOT a free speech forum. There are people here who get messages from Frank being told to shut up or get out.

And if Frank wants this to be Dealer World, Sales World or Propaganda World that's fine with me. It's his joint.

iyi is not the big issue here. It's the overall tone of what PW has become. iyi bir piano just pointed out to me that it was time to decide a few things, because my own writing energies (and spare time) are in limited supply and I need to decide how to best spend them.

I have many contacts within the piano business. There are many industry people who watch these Forums but are never seen here. I have learned about many problems that have been created by propagandizing posters resulting in major financial losses. I have learned of dealer lurkers who secretly stalk and buttonhook innocent consumers who post on PW. While Frank's policy of benign neglect worked for a long while, it will no longer do for me, because I consider myself part of the piano industry, and PW is harming the piano industry in tangible ways. There has got to be some stand on the quality of information.

You want to call that a "tantrum", fine. You want to say I need to "toughen up", fine. You want to say I'm just saying this to get people to plead with me to stay, fine. This tells me much about you and it's not surprising considering some of the BS posters you defend around here.

Regards,


Rick Clark

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Herein lies the problem...

For all of the crap that surfaces from even some of the long-time members on this board, about it being consumer-driven, etc...the bottom line is that without some piano people who are willing to tell the truth as they see it, this board is nothing more than an ill-informed pricing service.

Hasn't anyone besides me noticed the quality of the board over the least week, or so?

Take Larry, lb, Rick, or some others such as Del out of the mix, and you have a lot of shoppers essentially babbling at each other.


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
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This board is extremely helpful and to those of us who have been here awhile, we know who the respected posters are and who are not. We rely on the oldy-but-goody forumites to point out (quickly and to the point, please) those who have no business speaking up. I think many of the members here are smart enough to know who they can trust. I think I do. I beg you, Rick, Larry, lb and many other respected posters, to please not leave! We're depending on you!

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Rick
The the increase of noise level here makes your signal more important than ever.

Besides, I know where you live.
If you split I will drive down and attempt to learn how to play clarinet, violin and trombone outside your window late at night. frown
wink

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Let me add my vote for Rick to stay. I find his posts to be some of the most informative and interesting there is to be had at this forum.

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Rick, please stay. Your contributions here are immensely valuable. I don't spend much time reading the threads about dealer agendas, but I'm gathering there's a growing problem.

I don't think PW can afford to lose good people, and you're way high on that list.

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Quote
Originally posted by Rick Clark:
Gman,


But let's get a couple things straight: My skin is as thick as it comes, and I've got several years of PW postings and several before that on RMMP to prove it. Anyone can read my postings and decide for themselves.

And this is NOT a free speech forum. There are people here who get messages from Frank being told to shut up or get out.

And if Frank wants this to be Dealer World, Sales World or Propaganda World that's fine with me. It's his joint.
All appreciation of your contributions acknowledged, I think you should email Frank privately and not make this a public personality conflict.

Who gives a fiddler's fart about iyi bir? And what does iy bir mean?

PS - I've never received an email from Frank like this have you?
smile


Regards,

Grotriman
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iyi bir piano is and always been a troll.

The question should not be whether Rick stays, but whether iyi bir goes!

I vote he goes.

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Quote
Originally posted by bcarey:
iyi bir piano is and always been a troll.

The question should not be whether Rick stays, but whether iyi bir goes!

I vote he goes.
Oh good. Just what Rick wants to hear!

What good will it do to the piano community at large if you go Rick and iyi stays? Will that "save" the reputation of piano world?

What specific harm has iyi done to the piano community outside PW? Do you have any examples?

Why do you put yourself into a situation where you compare yourself to him? Now you are on the same level as iyi. This is what this thread has achieved.

I don't defend anybody. I merely point out when people are exhibiting mob behavior and who needlesly attack others for reasons that are not germain to the thread's topic. Which is not fair.

I find this all kind of immature.


Regards,

Grotriman
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Grotriman,

Have you seen some of iyi's shananigans?

Ask him what he knows about the manufacture of cast iron plates for pianos.

I did not say what I said lightly. I've only suggested banning two people, iyi and one other in over 2 years at this forum. The other was banned.

This is not immature. It is, IMHO, what is in the best interest of the piano forum.

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Grotriman,

In the year that I have been following the forum Iyi Bir has done nothing except post inflammatory propoganda that misleads and can confuse consumers. His presence consistently requires that more knowledgable and conscientious industry people correct his self-serving blather.

If you want to ignore him that is fine.. he does not waste your time. I have seen him constantly waste the time of the people who contribute the most value to this forum, Rick certainly high among them.


Michael

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Personally, I'm not fond of the "you or me" tactics. But I agree with Rick as to the tone of this forum. IMHO this isn't just a recent trend but the forum has been like this for some time and has just grown worse. lb is gone. Larry is posting less and less. Rick C. and Keith are posting less and less. Chickgrand posting less. Why?

Some of you may feel that some of us who take this forum too seriously "need a life". Maybe we do. But, I'm here to tell you it's the long time posters such as the above that are passionate about pianos and know the pianos inside and out. Some of us, myself included, enjoy taking apart a piano as much as we enjoy playing a piano. Other people have other passions. Whether they be books, cars, guns, sports, etc... Don't knock us for ours. Afterall, we're here to help you.

We enjoy helping. What we don't enjoy is constantly battling spin and in some cases out right lies. After all it's one poster's word over another. Some posters are more eloquent than others. Some more articulate. Some more emotional.

If I had to vote either Rick C or iyi off the island, I'd have to vote iyi off the island. This isn't because Rick's been around longer but simply because Rick has been much more honest and open about who he his and a whole lot more objective.

JMHO, sorry for the rant.

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