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#487683 03/25/08 11:34 AM
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Does anybody play the Op.23-5 in G minor prelude by Rachmoninoff? Seems like it has alot of jumps (which is one of the aspects of my technique I want to work on) and alot of octave runs... Does anybody play it? Just wondering the difficulty level.. Thanks =D


Currently Working:
Brahms: Intermezzo Op.119 no.3 in C

Currently Polishing:
Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu Op. 66
#487684 03/25/08 11:41 AM
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i think the hardest part of this prelude for me was getting the middle section even in the left hand. With slow practice the jumps are pretty easy.


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
#487685 03/25/08 01:09 PM
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Without doubt (but in my opinion) the hardest thing about this prelude is the repeated chords in semi-quavers. They require flexibility, suppleness, lightness and complete relaxation in the wrists (more so in the left maybe). For me these took up much of the practise time I spent on the piece; hands seperately, seperate exercises and slow, careful practise.

As Cheeto717 said, the jumps are pretty easy with slow practise.
I believe the middle section is not as hard as it seems (slow practise on the LH and you'll probably get it pretty quickly); many of the arpeggios are similar and there's plenty of time with the RH chods.

There's not really a lot of octave runs as suchl; the bit that starts with the Eb major chords are octave, one note, octave, one note small phrases, leaving only the one descending after the dramatic AABbBbAABbBb . . . bit (that's the hardest part maybe [the repeated notes not the run]).

A pretty tough piece overall I believe. I play the pieces you mention in your "Currently working" signature apart from the 'Revolutionary', and the prelude I find more difficult than them.


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin
#487686 03/25/08 01:11 PM
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Didn't read your signature properly; didn't realise it said 3 nocturnes . . . I don't play the 3.


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin
#487687 03/25/08 04:19 PM
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i was thinking though about dropping the 3 nocturnes and adding the rachmaninoff op.3-2 and the g minor one


Currently Working:
Brahms: Intermezzo Op.119 no.3 in C

Currently Polishing:
Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu Op. 66
#487688 03/25/08 04:29 PM
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I have posted this before, but here's a recording my son made a couple of months ago. This piece took a while to perfect. More time to perfect than to learn, actually. He needed to live with it for a while and then things began to come together.

He actually does it a little better now. He has more control in the middle.

Prelude in G Minor

#487689 03/25/08 04:45 PM
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You son is quite good. How come he doesn't post here?

#487690 03/25/08 04:48 PM
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As far as I remember (played it 7 years ago and then stoped playing piano pretty much) it was rather difficult, but not immensly... I have "huge" hands, thus octaves, chords, jumps, etc, are rather easy for me. But then again, I could never play the flight of the bumble bee! laugh

Anyways, the said prelude has 3 techniques that stand out, as prementioned:
* jumps: You do have to hit the right notes, in relatively fast speed, and... it takes practice
* octave runs. There are a few places that have octave runes. However, these are few and sparse, and not the whole piece, so you could very well just stick there and study for 30 minutes each day those bars! I bet that this method will work, but it's dead boring!
* Arpeggios in the left hand, with 3 total voices, middle section. It seems obvious, but having to spread 2-3 octaves in the left hand, while having a melody in the right along with a counter melody, can be tricky in the end...

Chords are *normal* chords, of G minor, Eb maj, etc... One playing such pieces should have little trouble placing his hands immediately in the right position...

Piano dad: Very nice recording. Tell your son well done! smile From a "random Internet guy" laugh

#487691 03/25/08 05:21 PM
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There are old threads on this topic. Here is some of the key points.

- You must have good basic technique and play slowly at first, allowing no wrong notes

- Re-arrangement of some chords between LH and RH reduced the jumps and other big movements of arms

- Check carefully fingering of fast series of chords in akward positions. When pinky on black key, when the 4th or 3rd finger?

- With right fingering the middle section is the easiest part. And the final bars too.

- By having an open mind and trying all possible fingering , you will find one alternative that suits you the best.

- Who owns a fax machine can get the score with my fingering proposal "free of charge". I am happy if I can help more pianists.

#487692 03/25/08 05:34 PM
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The hardest aspect for me is the massive amount of notes to play. I have to think a few measures ahead in order to get all the information into my fingers. As others mentioned here, everything else depends on the individual weaknesses, there is no physically impossible section.

As for octave runs (someone mentioned them) I would recomment Charles Valentin Alkan, the Allegro barbaro of the twelve studies in major keys. 50% consists of octaves in both hands, and fast. But that is another subject, sorry for OT.

#487693 03/25/08 06:55 PM
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the 3/2 one is much much easier than 23/5 chopinchamp.


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin
#487694 03/25/08 07:35 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Akira:
You son is quite good. How come he doesn't post here?
He does, once in a while. He goes by Book_Worm. He's not really into forums. We keep him really busy with music (including French Horn), so I think he would rather spend free time on an XBox playing Call of Duty or Halo. laugh

#487695 03/26/08 12:08 AM
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David --

Anthony's performance is amazing. He's so much better than when I heard him a year ago that it's almost a little scary. What are you feeding that young man? Whatever it is, keep it up! thumb


Phil Bjorlo
#487696 03/26/08 05:43 AM
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I can't find the thread where someone asked about the chord section from measure 17 to 22, but here is a good way to practise:

Step one: Play the chords on the quarters only
Step two: Play all chords on the eighths but leave out the repetitions or "grace chords"
Step three: Play all chords on the eighths
Step three: Add the few missing chords and notes

It probably also helps understanding this section better. And if you don't, it easily just becomes a noisy mess - like all the rest of this piece.

#487697 03/26/08 11:58 AM
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There is IMO no 'massive amount' of notes to read as the big chords are repeated many times.

Good fingering makes the shift from one chord to another easier.

#487698 03/26/08 03:15 PM
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Piano*Dad, that recoding was very good. I thought it was a link to the only one I've seen of him playing the piece; the one from the back if you know what I mean, when the piece wasn't quite mastered; some bars missing in the middle section I think, anyway, this is much better!! Not that it was bad or anything before . . . just the difference is great!! To be able to do a recording like that is amazing, it was such a convincing performance. Well done and congratulations to your son!!

I notice though, he plays some of the semi-quavers with his arms more so than his wrists (I am only noticing this because my teacher said I did exactly the same thing (but much more so)). It didn't affect much of course as the melody and accompaniment was still balanced well. Does he ever get tense when playing it?

I am only interested in that factor because I had trouble with it, your son's recording remains marvellous. As I said before, well done!


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin
#487699 03/26/08 04:14 PM
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Tension is the thing he had to conquer in order to master this piece. His new teacher spent several months deconstructing his technique before rebuilding the prelude on a firmer foundation. She taught him how to drop into chords and grab them without using forearm tension and rigid hands. That was a major technique breakthrough for him.

Yes, he still has some tension in his whole shoulder/arm/wrist positioning, but he has probably gotten 70% of it cleared up. He complains of being a bit tired only when he practices the prelude for a half hour straight, but to work through the piece a couple of times causes no tension related tiring.

Yes, the second recording is a significant advance over the first, which was a bit premature. That piece has been one of his major competition workhorses this semester, and his teacher spent a lot of time with him honing the details. That's one of the things we like about her. She really is getting him to sweat the fine points that he would never have paid the requisite attention without excellent professional help.

Hark, I hear the sounds of the prelude floating up from downstairs. I guess he got tired of drilling on the Mozart sonata. laugh

#487700 03/27/08 08:28 PM
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As I think I expected Piano*Dad; that most of the tension is gone but some still resides. I only noticed because it had been such a great issue to me.
My teacher had me doing similar; my entire technique seemed to be deconstructed, but more so so that it would come entirely from the wrist, that the forearm's movement was minimal; almost none.

I notice your son plays the first semiquavers in the left hand with the thumb and another finger (I think I'm not sure what I made out exactly), I play 2 4 though I used to do it 13, the 24 helped to get a lighter wrist action again.


What does everyone here take those chords with???


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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