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Hi all,

I just wanted to speak for what I know about Dawn Howells and Peregrine Pianos.

I have spent time with Dawn and a member of her staff at an international dealer meeting in Braunschweig. I was impressed with their knowledge and the way they seemed to work with people. I cam imagine them being wonderful for customers to work with.

I will add that shortly after that dealer meeting I decided that Cunningham Piano Company would step away from Schimmel, but in my experience, the Classic and Konzert series of instruments have remained very good pianos.

My 2 cents,

Thank you Rich!
Just listening to Dawn she sounded so incredibly enthusiastic for Schimmel Pianos even after the.purchase of Schimmel by the the Chinese company. She was also very musically knowledgeable.(or so it seems) I was actually rather naive 😅 about Schimmel instruments until I played my K132. I find the action really excellent and tone creative and with great clarity.
Thank you for your input. Tre

Not Chinese at all! Just conjecture I suppose? The pianos which you can see in the store is dated Aug 23rd 2022

I did once stop into Peregrine's I think. Mostly to try Forster, but I was then invited to see how a Schimmel behaved.

At the time (pre-Covid), the shop floor was completely full of instruments. To the point it was hard to walk from one end to the other. I have no idea what the pandemic has done to their business. But they seemed to be very nice, and carrying some very decent pianos.

I think a holiday from the forum is a useful suggestion. I have no idea why you think people are dumping on your most recent choice of pianos, but there is no reason that you ought to pay any attention to that. Your purchase made you happy-- now go enjoy it.

Also, if your piano is so great I'm not sure why you're potentially shopping for its replacement in Germany?[quote/twocats]

If you think this stuff cannot put you off your piano,.you are wrong! Even though the company was foreign owned, I wanted a German piano.Schimmel.is VERY forward looking however if it is no longer producing German pianos we MAY buy a truly German company. Our reasons are our own! These threads has caused us both distress, fortunately my husband has more emotional, mental control.He never thinks of me as a lunatic though-- also not "born without a brain"
However he is fully involved with possibly buying a different German upright, ONLY if it superceeds the K132 in performance!!! That would always be the "final decision-- performance" Of course we are carefully finding out the specifications of these pianos.

We "may" hopefully visit August Forster or Bluther.We are going to Dresden and Leipzig. After there we will go South to the Sauter factory in Spachingem.There will be two 130 Competence Sauters for us there, to choose one. Possibly we may visit Bluthner if no luck at Forster.

We will only be visiting in Germany in March 2023. The pianos will only be ready then.Anything can happen with Covid that could prevent our trip.We do not want to quarantine for a week...
A Sauter seems more likely. Forster there are problems, possibly? We probably would find a tall Bluthner upright too expensive, still we could try a Ronish or Hassler.Both are German made pianos not to the same quality of a Bluthner.

Can extra musical experiences, attitudes, feelings-- affect a musician? They affect composers, and musicians all the time.
These threads have certainly affected me! I now doubt what I hear, when look at the piano, I read "Braunschweig", I have overcome those feelings( the dark history), now I know the factory is owned by an oppressive government-- that affects us both! Possibly we will make real peace with our Schimmel. We will probably buy a Sauter though! Yes my friends, I need some days away from here, I will try that. tre corda

Regarding material we sent to Rob Slayman it was done purely for clarity about the history of our own piano, that's all.Many would have done the same. There was NO need then to report the thread. The use of Peregrine's marketing material was presented ONLY to show others WHY we had confidence in our piano.I admire Dawn from watching her. What harm can there be in providing the link? None! Banning me for expressing my feelings would be extremely unfair.

Schimmel Pianos is owned by Pearl River in China, but they are German operated, and in many respects they are as much a German company as Bösendorfer is an Austrian one. There is no need in the market for Bösendorfer to produce the equivalent of a Fridolin or Wilhelm Schimmel because Yamaha pianos fill that gap in the market for them. Well, at least the lower end models do, since by the time you get to the CX series you're no longer in cheap piano land. So, if you're worried about whether or not you own a German piano, don't. You own a German piano, fair and square.

I'd like to speak to the forum in general, if I may. I may be overstepping the mark here but for some time, Tre Corda has felt that there are people who are trying to devalue Schimmel. It's clearly something that has been bothering her, and she has expressed her frustration on this board many times. Personally I haven't read posts which denigrate, devalue, or disparage Schimmel outright, but that isn't my point. It takes ten seconds of our lives to step back and say "Tre Corda [or whoever], I'm not trying to devalue your piano or spoil your enjoyment of your instrument. I'm sorry that what I said could be taken that way, and I'm happy that you have a piano you love." Or something like that. My point is that we should all just take a step back and be kind. None of us know when we respond to things what kind of day someone has had when they write a post, or what they might be going through in life to make them feel upset, or why our words are perceived in certain ways. Sometimes things are all just a misunderstanding and I think misunderstandings are best resolved with kindness and compassion. There are times on this forum where it seems that being right, and being proved right, comes above being kind. Sure, we can all have our different opinions, but there's no need for any of us to be antagonizing about it - EVEN if someone is making a mountain out of a molehill or misinterpreting what we say.

On another thread someone harshly criticized Tre Corda for typing Australian instead of Austrian. I'm dyslexic and I make mistakes like that all the time. I have to read, and re-read my posts. I also have Ulcerative Colitis which gives me brain fog at times, and I write things and say things which make no sense as a result. So you don't know why someone would type Austrian rather than Australian. It's a human mistake. Incidentally the same person who made that criticism messaged last week me to let me know I played a wrong note in a Beethoven sonata recording I made in a live concert in 2016, so this person obviously has too much time on their hands. By the way there is a now-iconic Australian piano and it's Stuart and Sons, and it might not have the history of the iconic Austrian piano, but they're out there building great instruments! But there's really no need for things to get so personal.

Asking Tre Corda to take a break from the forum because people can't respond with kindness is actually extremely unfair. This is like children in a playground at times, and I've observed kids under 10 behave better than some of the people here, and frankly it's starting to really [censored] me off. I'm standing up for Tre Corda here because someone has to do it. Tre Corda wants to share her experiences of her (rather beautiful) piano on this forum, and she wants to share in other people's positive experiences. Sometimes she feels a bit scared because she thinks people are saying things which might devalue her instrument financially, and it affects her emotional bond that she has with her piano, which obviously runs very deep. While I know that nobody is attacking Schimmel pianos directly (or indirectly), we don't need to attack Tre Corda when she feels scared or frustrated about things. I've taught in schools for a number of years and quite honestly I'd have some people on the naughty step for some of the things they've posted, I'd have you miss snack time and keep you in at break for this stuff! And yes, I'm using this terminology because frankly people are behaving like children. If this was a pub I'd say, hey, Tre Corda, lets go to the bar and get a drink, talk about Beethoven, and let the guys at the table have their competitive talk.

We have had a few people saying to Tre Corda that she should take a break from the forums, and yet nobody is saying to the antagonists that perhaps they should give Tre Corda a break. What exactly is fair about this? I expect this post will be met with a few rude responses, or it might even get me banned for a week or reported or taken off the forum, but I'm really quite disappointed with some of the behavior I'm seeing here.

Life is short. A few things have happened recently to remind me of that sad fact. Please use your very limited time on this earth to be kind. And remind me of the same thing when I step out of line.

Bravo, Joe! Your posts are always excellent. This one exceedingly so.

Your 2 cents is worth a lot more than 2 cents.
Thanks for offering the industry perspective.
I've said this before, but your objectivity truly makes you a class act.

[quote=Joseph Fleetwood] "My point is that we should all just take a step back and be kind. None of us know when we respond to things what kind of day someone has had when they write a post, or what they might be going through in life to make them feel upset, or why our words are perceived in certain ways. Sometimes things are all just a misunderstanding.. ."

"EVEN if someone is making a mountain out of a molehill or
misinterpreting what we say.. ."
[quote/Joe]

Joe I did not expect a music professional like yourself to stand up for me, and our "home piano!" Saying that however I have noticed that real professional people often have the greatest humility and often a kindness you never expect.You are more than "we know," only the brave would do what you have done here. I thank you for trying to understand me, for taking the trouble.I am sorry to hear about your medical condition. From what I have heard it can be very trying and exhausting. Thank you for sharing with us and trusting us. I thank you deeply for helping me. Tre

It is a cruel world out there, pretending that this forum is any different would be dishonest.

It is all very comparable to a former avian forum member, we all know what happened.

Have a nice week-end!

I think Learux and others are giving you good advice. Take a little break take some deep breaths enjoy the sunshine. Me, I’m going to the beach tomorrow with my wife. We do this every weekend now. We’re surrounded by some of the best beaches in the world and live right next to one we feel silly for many years we hardly went.

Please don’t get sick because of Pianoworld. I think it is brave of you to let everyone know you have a medical condition. I noticed that you ruminate about some things in your posts from time to time. We all do this to different degrees. I do as well. Sometimes if it’s excessive though it’s a good idea to take a break and just think positive thoughts. It’s not worth it to get sick so just as the song says, “let it go”.

Anyways take care and continue to enjoy your piano!

OEIFEU's post deliberately accused me of something I would never have done-- it was like being accused of throwing mud in someone's face-- when mud had just been thrown in my face.

Yes it triggered me all over again. Is that really not understandable?.
"Australian" was my phone -- just a typo.

It was Rob Slayman who said "something will need to be done" not me!! I had the right to show him what was written. We needed to find out everything about our piano as we took everything very seriously which should be obvious by us considering a different piano.in Germany.

This situation about Schimmel now being a Chinese Manufacturer keeps coming back at different times.

I’m relatively new to these forums and have no particular axes to grind of any sort, just a general level of curiosity.

As I’m in the UK, I typically look at threads about the UK.

I’ve noticed a bit of comment here and there about Schimmel (amongst others) as a maker so I thought I’d do my own research.

The research output below was from a search about Bluthner pianos so I don’t know what the inherent consequent biases are, but there are always biases. The article is from a website ‘luxury-pianos.com’ dated 30th July 2020.

Here is a link :

https://luxury-pianos.com/all-about-bluthner-pianos/

In summary there is a table in it grading pianos as follows


Iconic :

Bechstein
Bluthner
Bosendorfer
Fazioli
Steinway (Hamburg)
Steingraeber


Renowned :

Forster
Grotrian
Sauter
Steinway (NY)


Distinguished :

Estonia
Shigeru Kawai
Mason & Hamlin
Petrof
Schimmel (Konzert)
Seiler (Germany)
Yamaha (CF)


Notable :

Bechstein (Academy)
Haessler
Ronisch
Schimmel (Classic)
Yamaha (SX)


Honorable Mention :

Hoffman (Tradition/Professional)
Schulze Pollmann (Masterpiece)
Seiler (ES)
Wilh Steinberg (Signature)
Charles R. Walter grands


Obviously different views exist and individuals have their own personal preferences. I don’t know enough yet to have a real personal preference but I do like the piano I own (Welmar, who used to work with Bluthner)

Keith

The only reason I commented in this thread is because Tre Corda decided to make a derogatory and incorrect remark about me in her original post. This ludicrous defence of Schimmel branded pianos is invariably begun because TC has a fixation on defending the brand.

It is a fact that China is a communist regime (which many Americans purport to dislike) and authoritarian in the extreme including suppressing religious freedom. The Chinese is a huge market for pianos and they have bought up a lot of former European owned piano businesses, like Schimmel, who were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. This has undoubtedly saved the brands and some jobs in Germany.

However, with Chinese owners it is an obvious economic fact that buying pianos made today from these owners (Pearl River in this case) is supporting the Chinese communist economy. It does not strike me as logical to deny that this must be a fact.

I've not played or even seen a Schimmel in the UK or Europe for some years. They were previously regarded as a mid tier brand and perfectly satisfactory. No doubt the small number made in Germany these days are fine instruments.

In fact I am not knocking Schimmel and was surprised that Tre Corda started another stream of consciousness kicking off again. She appears to get reported a lot, but not by me - as far as I am concerned this is the internet and people say whatever they like but it should be polite ideally.

If she and her husband are "triggered" by reading internet forums, the solution is to stop originating "defence" threads unnecessarily on internet forums. If she does originate threads and specifically refers to me then she can expect a robust but factual reply. I am sure her actual piano was made in Germany by fine German craftsmen. My wife is German actually and we will be over there again in a few weeks.

It beats me what referring to a London retail dealer has to do with anything - dealers are always positive about the brands that they carry. Shock! In this case it takes a few seconds to discover that the company that the dealer uses has no assets and is little more than a $100 shell legally. That is in the public domain and would certainly be something I would always check if I were buying from any dealer, as it is relevant to such things as warranty longevity. There is less visibility of such things in the US and Canada, though it is a long time now since I lived in New York and have not crossed the pond since.

Finally I have no idea what EU or UK forums TC thinks are knocking Schimmel. I'm unaware of this but the only piano forum I am a member of and have ever posted in is this one.

Kind regards to all, AJ

This is really good advice TC, I wish you well although (hopefully) you'll have already read Learux's advice and won't actually be reading this message :-)

Since you quoted me in your response I hope you recognized my post agreed with your defense that many of the Schimmel pianos are still made in Germany with the same expertise and craftsmanship those pianos are known for. I still love Schimmels, especially the Konzerts.

It is difficult to find how Pearl River is controlled. The CEO has known CCP links and the company is listed as state owned and CCP controlled. I've had a bit of a look but I don't read Chinese and almost all western websites entirely gloss over how the company is run and controlled. It has several thousand employees that appear to be under labour rate control as is common there. Company profits go to the communist state apparently.

Incidentally, I make no moral judgements about any of this - countries run their economies and control of the people in whatever way they like. The Chinese system is very different to the US system, but so is a dictatorship as found in the Middle East for example. If people wish to support the Chinese communist economy by buying goods from Chinese owned companies wherever they are, then that is a personal decision. Morally it is difficult to do that and at the same time criticise China for communism, state birth control and religious oppression (not that people here do that, but western media and politicians do and project those values onto their jurisdictions). These divisions in philosophy are becoming more challenging as the world once again becomes more divided and borders less secure.

It possibly helps us make more informed decisions if we are clear about who owns what and where we source things from.

[quote=tre corda]One reactionary forum is Clavio de

From TC.

I had a look on this German piano forum as I sheltered from the heat this afternoon between bouts of cooking. It's in German obviously which is fine. Difficult to spot anything "reactionary" about it at all. Very little on Schimmel, nothing that I spotted bashing Schimmel particularly (some people preferred other brands such as Bechstein Academy) and nothing all that recent.

You do come across some sentiment in the German press currently that is not exactly favourable towards the sell out to Chinese companies, or Russian ones for that matter. But this is unsurprising given what is going on in Ukraine, gas pipelines and Taiwan ROC.

There was an interesting quote from Pearl River: "The history of pianos is German, but the future is Chinese". I thought it was quite amusing.

It may be a cruel world, and some of that does indeed seep in here. But I think the intention is for PianoWorld NOT to be a cruel place. For example, take a look at Ken's pinned "Let's All Be Friends" post. It says, "if there is someone on the forum that you don't like, leave them alone." Instead -- for example -- there's a group of posters who know what upsets tre corda, and they deliberately steer things that way to do so. They may disguise their taunts as jokes so that they fly under the radar, but it's cruel nonetheless.