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Petzold Offline OP
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Hello everybody!

New to the forum, I registered today. As a reader I already knew it, and I have enjoyed your conversations many times.

I recently bought a Yamana P-125 digital piano. Overall, I am happy with it.

My question is about the string resonance feature (sympathetic resonance) without pedal. I know that my piano has it, and I know sort of how it works.

But, these last few days, it has seemed to me that some specific resonances sound too loud. I don't know if I simply hadn't paid attention to it before, or if my unit has some defect.

I have recorded two audio samples so you can help me. In the first one, I hold down C4 and then press G3 repeatedly. Then, we can hear G5 resonate pretty loud. Then I do the same with other tonal combinations, always maintaining 5 semitones of difference.

Sample 1

In the second sample, I play the first notes of Mozart's sonata 545, which has the peculiarity that, keeping C4 pressed with the right hand, G3 is played with the left hand several times. Again you can hear G5 resonating loud.

Sample 2

My question: Is this the normal P-125 resonance sound, or is my unit defective?

If anyone has a P-121 or P-125, please check if it sounds the same.

Regards.

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Check this thread LINK

There is mention of overtones there too. I can hear the overtone in your example recordings.

Also ..... page 12 of the pdf manual.

Quote
Damper Resonance
When you select a Piano Voice, pressing the footswitch
activates the Damper Resonance/ Sustain
sampling effect (when on) to accurately recreate
the resonance of an acoustic piano’s strings.
To turn the effect on and enable footswitch control,
simultaneously hold down [PIANO] and press the
C#3 key; to turn it off, simultaneously hold down
[PIANO] and press C3.
Default setting: on

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SouthPark - thanks for the link to the other thread.

I have a different sound engine than Petzold and the other P125 owners, but I've also noticed and reported what to me sounds like an outsized prominence in 4th interval string resonances. On mine, it's not even quite as clean as on the P121-125, it's dog-whistle shrill. Probably the only thing I have to "complain" about the digital tone generator on the silent system.

I think this is absolutely a Yamaha thing, wrt how they implement/tune their VRM/resonance engine. The cynic in me says that whoever at Yamaha is responsible for this must have some hearing deficiency for this range, to have tuned 4ths SO strongly! I've not heard the same effect on Roland, Kawai, or any VSTs like Garritan CFX. One thing I've found is that it's less prominent (but still there) on the included Yamaha headphone, but it's really loud and distracting on my Sennheiser HD-598s.

Another thing is that the effect completely disappears with the damper pedal down. Obviously, the resonances are handled differently (I suspect the string resonance engine is disabled entirely at some half-pedal value because the sampled damper notes have their own recorded resonances).


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Maybe I am wrong, but I assume there are 3 kinds of resonance:

1) the full resonance of an undamped piano

2) the sympathetic resonance occurring when one/several keys are depressed and you hit another key having an harmonic relationship with the depressed key/s

3) the aliquote resonance, i.e. the resonance of the undamped high strings.

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Petzold Offline OP
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Thanks for the answers.

@SouthPark: Yes, during the tests I did these days, that was precisely the thread I used for reference. I have no doubt that we are talking about a feature implemented by Yamaha, but I am still in doubt if in my device these specific resonances are sounding louder than planned.

As for the possibility of disabling them, there is no such option in the P-121 P-125. Note that I am only talking about the resonance on the undamped strings (the highest notes and the pressed keys), without using the pedal at any time.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
The cynic in me says that whoever at Yamaha is responsible for this must have some hearing deficiency for this range, to have tuned 4ths SO strongly! I've not heard the same effect on Roland, Kawai, or any VSTs like Garritan CFX. One thing I've found is that it's less prominent (but still there) on the included Yamaha headphone, but it's really loud and distracting on my Sennheiser HD-598s.

Well, yes, it's like to think that they are a little deaf in that frequency range... grin
BTW, we have the same headphones. And yes, with them plugged in directly those overtones can be quite persistent and even annoying at times, depending on the piece.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Another thing is that the effect completely disappears with the damper pedal down. Obviously, the resonances are handled differently (I suspect the string resonance engine is disabled entirely at some half-pedal value because the sampled damper notes have their own recorded resonances)

True, I had already noticed that. With the pedal down, the resonance generator behaves completely different. And I actually like it better, since those exaggerated overtones we are talking about do not appear. Or at least, they sound better weighted.

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G3 196 hz
C4 261 hz
G5 783 hz

That is 4 x 196 and 3 times 261. That is the lowest common frequency.

So yes, that is the correct I believe behavior for string sympathetic resonance where you will hear G5

With c4 depressed and playing g3


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
SouthPark - thanks for the link to the other thread.

Most welcome Gombessa. Your description of what is heard is outstanding. Described excellently. The person that was working on the tuning may well have had a hearing impairment. It's surprising in how it got passed a rigorous testing 'team' ----- if they actually even had a rigorous testing team.

It will be interesting to see whether the 'a' (125a) has the same behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Petzold
@SouthPark: Yes, during the tests I did these days, that was precisely the thread I used for reference. I have no doubt that we are talking about a feature implemented by Yamaha, but I am still in doubt if in my device these specific resonances are sounding louder than planned.

Petzold ------ I can certainly hear the high pitch 'dings' in your example recordings. I think you have a right to exchange the P-125 for a different model. Fully justified.

Or - an email to Yamaha to ask them if they're aware of it (and it's possible that they're aware of it) --- then they could tell you (us) if they can asap give a firmware update which sorts it ----- that's if this instrument has a firmware update method. As long as yamaha says they will absolutely sort it, then that will be great. If they say something like - 'not on priority list, or will pass onto the tech team' (and you get no response there-after), then the only way to sort it (after that) is to go for a different model. Thanks for posting about that Petzold. All the best too!

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Originally Posted by SouthPark
It's surprising in how it got passed a rigorous testing 'team' ----- if they actually even had a rigorous testing team.

typo --- 'past'


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