Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum 1st Time Grand Buyer in Malaysia (!). Please Help!

That was the 17-year-old Model 6 in Singapore whose sound I liked but had a clunkier feel. Now, there was another newer Model 6 sitting right next to it whose touch was lighter but had a sound that I didn't care for as much - I'm assuming that that means the touch is something which can be changed with adjustment?

And then there's the Grotrian. I like that it is half the age of the Blüthner and is cheaper, but it bothers me that what I gather is a fine piano has never been sold since 2012 because other brands are more popular (this is according to the store). I've never played a Grotrian (all e-mails to them go unanswered which is another minus point), but I like the sound of the 192 in clips...my feeling is that it's akin to the Estonia 190? I also liked the Estonia in clips but was disappointed when I finally tried one. A dealer also told me to stick to family-owned if possible, and Grotrian is now controlled by Parsons whereas Blüthner is still family-run. Is the quality of Blüthner generally higher than Grotrian?

And to Gombessa's point about being familiar with the sound of the specific model - I've had no personal experience with the Blüthner Model 2, only with the Model 6 which was good enough. Claims that the sound of Blüthners are somewhat "industrial" may not be entirely invalid. To those who've had experience with Blüthners - would a Model 2 be just a more amplified version of the Model 6? I think someone mentioned that Blüthner returned to quality from 2005 onwards; does that mean that my Model 2 is deficient in craftsmanship since it was made in 2002/2003?

This reminds me of the story I got from a dealer about a 10-year-old Indonesian-made Seiler sold to me as new for around half the price of a new one. The story was it went from warehouse to warehouse for years before ultimately sitting on the dealer's showroom for a year. But why? "These things happen in this business," is what I was told. Turns out there was a soundboard issue for many of these models the year it was made. The reason it sat in warehouses for years is the soundboard installation was defective, and ultimately had to be shipped back to the factory and replaced. This fact wasn't made known to me until I went to trade it in on a different Seiler and the new dealer researched the serial number through Seiler before making an offer. Ultimately the dealer couldn't make me an offer over the phone. I had to ship it to the dealer who inspected it, found the soundboard replacement was done well (he said that can only be done once, and if it's done poorly you're out of luck), and sell it on consignment with full disclosure to any prospective buyers (of course). Moral of the story: the little voice I ignored when buying it was right. If it's too good to be true, there's likely something the dealer isn't telling you.

Well I would be concerned about any new piano that has sat around unsale since 2012 whatever the make especially moreso if the dealer is known to shift pianos reasonably quickly. Having said that I bought a (then) 16 year old Grotrian 225 myself which was dealer refurbished which I absolutely love. Parsons took over controlling ownership in 2014/15 if I remember correctly. If you have concerns about their effect on Grotrian, then the piano built in 2012 was at a time when Parsons didn't have a controlling stake and arguably one you want to buy !

Even if I have a Grotrian I wouldn't be blinkered enough to think every piano that comes out of their Braunschweig factory is perfect. Every manufacturer makes lemons. Having said that Bluthners are not uncommon in the UK and I've certainly played on quite a few including the new ones at Bluthner London. Enough certainly to say I can appreciate the difference between Grotrians and Bluthners. IMO compared to Grotrians, Bluthners are more mellow and more pure especially between C4 and C6. The bass is present but not as visceral/growly. It's a more subdued sound that's easy on the ears with less brightness (and overtones) in then upper registers and great balance between the registers. Grotrians have a more present bass and more colour to the notes. Not like SKs where there are too many overtones (imo). The fundamental note is there in Grotrians but there's more colour and more brightness available in the attack. Played softly, there's a clarity of the fundamental tone in the C5/6 region that is never overwhelmed and provides a beautiful contrast to the potent bass. Yes I love my 225. That's why I think you should bite the bullet and actually get on a plane and play the pianos and find one that speaks to you.

Thanks for the cautionary tale, MrSh4nkly!

The technicians nearby the area in which the store (Grotrian) is located have not been responsive, but I'm definitely not even going to consider buying this piano now unless I can get a technician to give it a thorough examination!

Thanks for sharing your impressions, Aritempor!

My trusty dealer informed me that Burkhard Stein was a good head of the company, so I feel more at ease knowing that he might've been around to actually approve the piano I'm interested in before it was shipped out of the factory. And yes, that thought did occur to me also that 2012 was pre-Parsons! On the other hand, if the company was forced to change ownership soon after that, concerns do materialize about whether they were already cutting costs by then and/or suffering shortages in labour.

The is the clip that made me fall in love with the sound of the 192:



One thing I noticed is that the interior of a Grotrian is much more basic-looking than a Blüthner although I'm not sure that really means anything. I do play more pop and contemporary music than classical - my impression is that the Grotrian might be more suited to those genres than a Blüthner? The Blüthner I tried did strike me as having a mellow sound, slightly contained and not especially powerful. Purity and clarity of tone are especially important to me (as well as sustain) - which would you say does better in those regards?

This is a scary way to make a decision.
I have played several Grotrian 192 and Estonia 190 pianos, and I have enjoyed the majority of Grotrians more, at that size. Bump up to the next larger size, and things get more complicated for me, though...
The dealer, if referencing the top-line Grotrian product, is full of it. I've played post-Parsons Grotrians that were still really good.
I don't think the most important difference between a modern Blüthner and a Grotrian is the tone. They are not similar to my ears.

I feel like bright versus mellow is more of a voicing thing, and also one that's rather subjective. Customers will designate preferences to whoever (including those from the factory), and then if there's a "standard route from the factory", it turns out to be surprisingly not all that strict. That's the reason why people like to go and try 10, 20, or 50 brand new pianos of a given model (and notice clear differences), if possible. The piano-makers do it that way on purpose (this is probably review, I think we talked about this already).

Taking a more bird's eye view of the situation...the brands that have been mentioned, Grotrian, Bluthner, Sauter...all are known for being high-quality brands. All happen to be European. They're all likely quite different as piano brands tend to be, but ask anyone which they like best, and you'll be listening to their subjective opinion (which is not necessarily useful to you as the pianist and buyer).

This is all else being equal in terms of condition, regarding those specific instruments. So no one can make the decision for you. These are all highly reputable brands (and the price shows it). Grotrian is on the ever so slightly more budget end, but...don't let that stop you, if you love the piano (and that's relatively speaking -- it's still an expensive product). If you don't really enjoy the piano, then there's no sense in fussing over it or worrying about it (regardless of the brand's reputation).

I still really think your fingers and ears should be your guide. Otherwise it's just a bunch of names.

Hi Riverway,

I friend of mine is searching for his dream piano recently. After much searching and thoughts, he narrows down to two pianos, namely a Grotrian 192 and a FAZIOLI 183. He would like having some 2nd opinion and so asked me trying out these pianos for him. In my opinion, Grotrian grand pianos are really really good at it’s price point but I would say FAZIOLI are just magical. Of course, it comes with a higher price so direct comparison seems not fair. Since Blüthner pianos are not available for sale in my city, I couldn’t give you an idea how they compare with each other. But I can say Grotrian grand are very very good. Some photos taken and share with you, cheers!

Lovely pictures! I did not know Grotrian also single-hitched all strings (just like Bosendorfer, and I think August Forster?)

Hi Gombessa, nice to know you and I am a new member here. I have recently joined this forum to share my joy and happiness in searching of my dream piano and it finally come true last month when my Shigeru Kawai SK2L was delivered at my home. I really like the Grotrian192 too. it’s just fascinating but nevertheless too big and not possible bringing into my room.

Wow, you have a Bosendorfer D214vc !!!!!!!!! I really really envy you. You must be the happiest pianist on the planet , cheers

Grotrian 192 photo

My understanding is that Grotrians are similar to Hamburg Steinway (maybe the closest you can get, given the Grotrian-Steinweg connection?)...I've played a lot of NY Steinways (and probably some from Hamburg before I knew the difference). I played one restored NY Steinway with German hammers (recently), that the salesman said he thought was more like a Hamburg Steinway (and it was different, reminding me more of something like a Bechstein, Bosendorfer, or Grotrian I had played). Fazioli I don't know much about except that people love them, and they're very special and different, especially regarding precision of action and tone. I look forward to trying one someday. I've heard from a few sources that Fazioli should ideally be played by advanced pianists, because of their telepathy-like responsiveness. Otherwise their sensitivity can be wasted.

I'm sending you a private message

I've played a few 6'10" Grotrian Charis and a few Hamburg Steinway B models, and I do not find this analogy to be true (at that size comparison, anyway).

Maybe I'm off there...this is where my limited experience fails me. Regardless, you're looking at a very high-quality piano in Grotrian (to my knowledge).

The Grotrians have a very unique dark, haunting sound that groans.. very different from steinway.. I didn't like the two grotians I played that much, although I thought their uprights are superb

I think the big issue for me is it has been ages since I played Grotrian (but I did so very often in those years). I remember it having a dark sound and really nice touch, a bit of friction and firmness there (at least on the one I played). I remember that compared at least to a Steinway (probably NY being what was featured at the music college), it did not have as full or projective of a tone, but was almost as enjoyable to play in its own way.

Thanks for all your thoughts, my lovelies!

I've been trying to put off the Blüthner seller for as long as I can, and the thought of an import tax just occurred to me today so I've asked him to lower the price even further. This country unfortunately has no FTA with the E.U. so the addition of an import tax pushes the price a bit further than I would like it to go. If the seller accedes to my wishes after having accommodated me so much already, I might just HAVE to buy the piano!

And Hi, Simcity! Thanks for sharing your photos. Good to know that the Grotrian compares favourably to the Fazioli, but seriously, after having tried the latter at Peterson's for the first time, not many brands will come close. Fazioli has an unbelievably smooth touch, almost too much so (yes James, only for advanced pianists!) - I felt almost sacrilegious blundering about on it with my clumsy playing!

All your warnings are impelling me to book another trip where this time I will ensure that ALL the brands I want to try are available at my destination. Holland is a trip too far, but I'll try to find a place that isn't!

I am also using klaviano and pianova to inquire and compare prices. (mainly for C.Bechstein Academy and Schimmel). There is one C.Bechstein A192 (Concert) floor model for about $50k euro, the model stood out in my last comparison.

Anyways let me know it goes. Im also considering a trip which I think it may well worth it. For new pianos Merriam marked them very high (almost twice as the price I quoted from Germany). I don't see why I can't neotigated close to the euro price + shipping, tariff and even a trip.

There are also many bosendorfer 200 (20 years) in your price range. I'd highly suggest to take a week to Germany/ Holland as "piano vacation". The pianos condition really differs one from another.

The nice technician sent me an image of what I think are the hammers of the Blüthner. I'm not sure if the image indicates that they are in good condition or not?

It’s seen some time under the key pounder at the factory, and some playing time, I’d guess. Has the piano been rented out, used in the showroom’s concert space, or in a high-traffic dealer? (I can’t remember the story of this piano and don’t feel like rereading the thread)

It doesn’t look bad at all, but it also doesn’t look brand new, if that makes sense. What matters most is how the tone sounds to you at various dynamic levels. It’s easier to tell how much wear from a profile view of a raised hammer.