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Joined: May 2020
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Originally Posted by vagfilm
3rd find: Symp resonance exists, and the MP3 below demonstrates it. In the file (rendered from a midi test file so that I could ensure absolute control over note duration and velocity) I play four times a staccato C3 (vel=127). The first C3 is played alone: no symp resonance. Then I play an octave (G1 through G2) at vel=1 and hold the notes; notice how loud a chord at vel=1 is !!! After the octave notes completely decayed but while the keys are still maintained, I play the second C3 and a strong symp resonance can be heard. Then I release all hold notes except C2 (still at vel=1 and completely silent at this moment) and I play the third C3: now a C2 resonance can be heard. Then I release C2 and play again C3 and no resonance occurs (although the render ends abruptly, the effect is exactly the same as in the first C3).

vagfilm, thank you for taking the time to provide such interesting data.

No, I don't think the point is proven, I don't think a usable, realistic, musical resonance exists.

On your second hit of C3 a strong resonance of C3 itself exists. That's a very silly effect and not the real sympathetic resonance that you normally hear in an acoustic. Symp resonance is when ANOTHER string is excited by the one being hit. Not the case here. This effect gives kind of an halo to the C3 itself, very unrealistic IMO.

As for your third hit, yes a C2 resonance can be heard, proper resonance, so feeble you really need to listen closely. A real acoustic instrument has a much much louder resonance and so does a well implemented software (Garritan)

So my opinion is that symp res here if it does exist is so poorly implemented as to make it unusable.

In any case thank you so much again for such a valuable, real data contribution.

(sidenote, I would never have expected such a debate on such a technicality . . .interesting . . .)

Last edited by marklings; 06/18/22 02:55 AM.
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I agree that the resonance is far from well implemented, but that was not the goal of this simple test. Several posts mentioned that there was no resonance at all: that holding the keys down did not affect the sound in any way. I was puzzled by that because VSL has a knob for resonance and so I wanted to see what happened in a sterile test.

I have garritan (but have to reinstall it), some of the NI pianos and ModernU. In the next days I can replicate the test in some others VSTs...

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Please do!

I would be most interested in the results

Thanks

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Hi,



and the preset :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VE_Bpzg_Kw9xxVQStbr2ZvhWl5ZUaVy_/view

On my YAMAHA N1X i have to set midi sensitivity in VSL player to - 36 : no need to change velocity curve with the Settings at - 36 like this nice preset smile

i confirm : no sympathetic resonance between keys -> just sometimes release sound -> and Sympathetic resonance in VSL is fake with you set -inf to some dB (No rules between keys)


So : VSL STEINWAY D : sound nice but doesn't have real Sympathetic resonance and not una corda samples

for sympathetic resonance you could add Pianoteq specific preset at same times at VSL smile ( just an idea)


O.F : Real GRAND Schimmel 1m74 - YAMAHA N1X with: in order of preference: 1)VSL SYNCHRON Steinway D-274 - 2) Yamaha N1X internal sound 3) Pianoteq 7.5.4 Steinway(s) - my Dream a Real Steinway in my living room - (but i've fast already it, with magical VSL Synchron Steinway D-274)
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Hi,

you can mix VSL D 274 with Pianoteq Steinway HB (easy on mac OSX)

same tuning -> and more unisson width

And thanks to Pianoteq you have real Sympathetic resonance.

see this demo with Sympathetic resonance check with chord at end of video :

Midi sensitivity in VSL : -36 to have same velocity than pianoteq default curve.
Only VSL condenser CLOSE 1 mic with 2 close mics in Pianoteq and 1 other mic smile
Same eaqual temperament at 440 Hz




but VSL have still silent keys problem.

On my hybrid Yamaha N1X, when the hammer doesn't hit the strings, velocity is 1 (silent) :
Work with Pianoteq
not ok in VSL V68 player

Regards,

Olivier F.

Last edited by owfrappier; 06/19/22 04:53 PM.

O.F : Real GRAND Schimmel 1m74 - YAMAHA N1X with: in order of preference: 1)VSL SYNCHRON Steinway D-274 - 2) Yamaha N1X internal sound 3) Pianoteq 7.5.4 Steinway(s) - my Dream a Real Steinway in my living room - (but i've fast already it, with magical VSL Synchron Steinway D-274)
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