2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
28 members (Evgeny 85, AJB, ANAFREE, EVC2017, CraiginNZ, Doug M., FarmGirl, AndrewJCW, beeboss, 4 invisible), 714 guests, and 221 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
As I mentioned in my previous post, brushing bridge pins and other the bearing points where strings touch metai came up in the Technician's forum some years ago. Cleaning strings included. A concert technician emphasised this sort of thing, "everything else", should be done first, before tuning and certainly voicing. General advice from an expert.

As Jethro says, there is no end to the places where a toothbrush can go. One of them is to reach the bridge pins underneath the wound strings. But one can keep a piano in good nick with a variety of of other brushes, and cloths such as the microfibre recommended by Mr Baloney.

I have answered my original question to my satisfaction without recourse to SouthPark's electronic wizardry. My ears are nothing special but good enough to hear when a note is duller than its neighbour. Believe it or not they can also assess when two notes are about as bright as each other. Apart from C3, a troublesome beast, the notes I brought up at the weekend were in the fourth and fifth octaves. This evening in the second and third.

Of cousrse a note may be dull for many other reasons. Or your piano may have no notes on the dull side.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,760
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,760
Withindale ----- I trust your ears. I'm sure that there was a significant noticeable difference. Any rust/corrosion on the strings or anywhere?

Maybe some damping, or dampening ---- energy being removed from the string around the anchor point. I wonder if anybody have done experiments with putting residue or substances in and round the string at the anchor point(s). Or bits of material between the string and the anchoring point. I guess it's difficult to test, because undoing the string etc for tinkering will mean the need to re-tune the string etc - which spoils the test conditions - as in not able to have a reliable reference.

And - because I trust your ears ..... as you are our eyes and ears. Ok, not eyes .... just ears. Then you need to back yourself. As in - the question should not be 'am I imagining this'. The title should be 'this is what I encountered'.

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 851
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 851
Originally Posted by Withindale
I took an old toothbrush to the strings

Did you use toothpaste?

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
Dust not corrosion, I'd say. You are right the thing to do when time permits is to slacken off some strings from the pins and see what's lurking there.

This is one of tbose areas where you have to rely on events for data. One such was that dead note on a concert grand caused by some stuff at the hitch pin.

The effect of sticky dust on strings could be a a topic for an MSc project. How does it dissipate energy and why do the compression waves leak out instead of continuing along the string?


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,760
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,760
Originally Posted by Sonepica
Originally Posted by Withindale
I took an old toothbrush to the strings

Did you use toothpaste?

I don't recommend using Sensodyne ----- as that one reduces sensitivity.

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,055

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
8000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,055
I lean towards skepticism too, but I suppose that if some little bit worked its way into a spot where it impeded vibration, then it could also impact tone.


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,301
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,301
I don't know if anyone else has experienced the same thing but I swear when I wash my car it always seems to run better. Just saying...

But I guess there could be some truth to dust at the bearing points. I guess it all depends upon how much dust is in there and if it is at all compressible that it can actually dampen the vibrations between the strings and pins. It just sounds a bit far fetched that strings under 160 pounds of pressure can be silenced by specks of dust but if it's actual "gunk" in there well that can be a whole different matter.

The metal dome tweeters on my speakers sometimes get dusty I never hear any tonal improvements after I dust them off.

But if this dramatic improvement in sound is true, maybe piano owners should be hiring housekeepers instead of piano tuners.

Last edited by Jethro; 05/25/22 04:23 PM.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,301
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,301
Speaking of grime. I could see a situation where if dust has settled over a long period of time that it’s caked on in a greasy or humid environment that enough of that can accumulate to affect the quality of tone but I think you may want to be careful using a toothbrush because that might just be pushing that caked on dust in the very places you want it not to go.

On occasion I use a vacuum with soft bristled around the pins just to lift the dust off. I never hear any changes in tone mind you but I understand that dust is not good for the metal parts because they may retain moisture leading to rust and corrosion over time.

Last edited by Jethro; 05/25/22 04:49 PM.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,573
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,573
A new tool for the piano technician, the toothbrush! wink


If the piano is the King of instruments then I am its loyal servant.
My blog:
https://mymusictree.blogspot.com/

Currently on Barratt Classic Piano Course book 1
Casio AP450

My Facebook Piano Group
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
Thinking about dust, as you do, I remembered dust is used to visualise patterns of vibration. YouTube came up with this really good demonstration of resonance with Chladni figures. Charles Taylor was a British Physicist with a great interest in music, and an acclaimed lecturer. If you have the time there is a demonstration of a celeste and a musical saw accompanying a piano.


Last edited by Withindale; 05/25/22 06:13 PM.

Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Sonepica
Originally Posted by Withindale
I took an old toothbrush to the strings

Did you use toothpaste?

He should. For the piano to have a strong and powerful bass (for Rach 2's introduction, maybe?) LOL


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,760
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,760
There's one way to test. Sprinkle some dust around that particular region ...... and test. Then use a vacuum tube/nozzle to vacuum it away. And see what happens.

If a tooth brush is used for brushing ..... then also consider what could be physically occurring .... such as forces exerted that alter seating/coupling of the string to the bits where it is anchored.

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 638
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 638
Imagine if someone tried that. Wonder what would happen!

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Haessler
by PianistEsq - 07/06/22 12:05 AM
Garritan CFX sustain problem
by mwf - 07/05/22 11:29 PM
First digital piano for my almost 6 year-old son.
by New2music - 07/05/22 10:54 PM
What Level is this Arrangement?
by showard - 07/05/22 09:36 PM
which piano? or other options?
by NJ_Piano_Mom - 07/05/22 08:27 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,823
Posts3,205,770
Members105,732
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5