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Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
Bright/mellow muddies the waters sometimes because people describe tonal quality using different language. Some people only use bright in a negative or neutral way. Brilliant is often used for a more complimentary effect.

What’s relevant is that tone only changes (during playing) with volume (ruling out pedal etc), and does so in a fixed way. Volume is determined by force of the hammer. Regulation only affects the action behavior.

So does regulation affect the dynamics? It very well could, depending on the pianist. And with dynamics, tone is also subsequently affected.

But does regulation affect anything essential about the core tonal quality of the piano? No. Most of that is determined already by the piano itself. To some degree, the voicing as well.

This is kind of rehashing what I said before. I can see where different sides are coming from. One case I can think of where regulation would affect tone obviously is if something were really wrong with the action and you could hear it. But that would probably amount to minor repairs rather than just regulation.
When regarding tone, bright and mellow is something that is real, yet mellow is not always what is desired nor is brightness, somewhere between bright and mellow is perhaps ideal.No! tone is not two dimensional.You should know since you have a Bosendorfer.Angella Hewitt's "mellow" would be interesting to know.

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Originally Posted by tre corda
Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
Bright/mellow muddies the waters sometimes because people describe tonal quality using different language. Some people only use bright in a negative or neutral way. Brilliant is often used for a more complimentary effect.

What’s relevant is that tone only changes (during playing) with volume (ruling out pedal etc), and does so in a fixed way. Volume is determined by force of the hammer. Regulation only affects the action behavior.

So does regulation affect the dynamics? It very well could, depending on the pianist. And with dynamics, tone is also subsequently affected.

But does regulation affect anything essential about the core tonal quality of the piano? No. Most of that is determined already by the piano itself. To some degree, the voicing as well.

This is kind of rehashing what I said before. I can see where different sides are coming from. One case I can think of where regulation would affect tone obviously is if something were really wrong with the action and you could hear it. But that would probably amount to minor repairs rather than just regulation.
When regarding tone, bright and mellow is something that is real, yet mellow is not always what is desired nor is brightness, somewhere between bright and mellow is perhaps ideal.No! tone is not two dimensional.You should know since you have a Bosendorfer.Angella Hewitt's "mellow" would be interesting to know.

Indeed…with my piano, I was sure it sounded mellow overall at the shop, but I think this was mainly compared to other pianos. It can be made to sound bright, especially in the upper register at high dynamics…but can easily give a mellow tone as well when played with less volume. It also has very interesting resonances. Beautiful sound to my ears, I wouldn’t say it’s the absolute mellowest of pianos (which wouldn’t be ideal anyway) but is very warm overall. Maybe somewhere in the middle and able to do both ends of the spectrum effectively.

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When you change the hammer line and or set off the same blow will produce a different sound.

No one has explained how a pianist knows how to adjust the blow to achieve the same volume as before or why that would be necessary.

There is no point in discussions when people asking the questions do not want to understand the implications of their own arguments.

Last edited by Withindale; 05/19/22 03:52 AM.

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Originally Posted by Withindale
When you change the hammer line and or set off the same blow will produce a different sound.

No one has explained how a pianist knows how to adjust the blow to achieve the same volume as before or why that would be necessary.

There is no point in discussions when people asking the questions do not want to understand the implications of their own arguments.

This post should have read:

When you change the hammer line and or set off the same blow will produce a different sound.

No one has explained how a pianist knows to adjust the blow to achieve the same volume as before or why that would be necessary.

There is no point in discussions when people asking the questions do not want to understand the implications of their own arguments.


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Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
Bright/mellow muddies the waters sometimes because people describe tonal quality using different language. Some people only use bright in a negative or neutral way. Brilliant is often used for a more complimentary effect.

What’s relevant is that tone only changes (during playing) with volume (ruling out pedal etc), and does so in a fixed way. Volume is determined by force of the hammer. Regulation only affects the action behavior.

So does regulation affect the dynamics? It very well could, depending on the pianist. And with dynamics, tone is also subsequently affected.

But does regulation affect anything essential about the core tonal quality of the piano? No. Most of that is determined already by the piano itself. To some degree, the voicing as well.

This is kind of rehashing what I said before. I can see where different sides are coming from. One case I can think of where regulation would affect tone obviously is if something were really wrong with the action and you could hear it. But that would probably amount to minor repairs rather than just regulation.
I think I agree with every sentence you wrote. A good explanation IMO.

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So do I. Regulation adjusts the dynamics and the tone produced, not the core tonal quality. Well put.


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
I would only take the display model and not the ones you don’t like as much.

Absolutely, new pianos “settle in” on the display floor. It takes a new piano takes a few weeks to a few months to stabilize after being removed from the crate or box. Don’t take a chance. Get the piano on display and write down the serial number. Make sure that serial number is delivered. You’ll be much happier. Best wishes!


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Check the piano's serial number with the factory Find out when it was delivered to the dealer, also date of manufacture.Do we know if Sauter has changed management or the CEO or anything else recently?

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The OP has not been back for five days. Her last post indicates she made her decision:

I guess I will trust the quality of Sauter and credibility of the dealer, and take one of the factory models.


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Yes but what does a factory model mean,.going to Germany to choose one? The MC130 is a factory model, or not? It's on the Sauter catologue,as far as I can see.


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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Originally Posted by tre corda
Yes but what does a factory model mean,.going to Germany to choose one? The MC130 is a factory model, or not? It's on the Sauter catologue,as far as I can see.

She did not clarify what she meant. I just doubt she will return to read any additional advice.


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Perhaps a new MC130 piano directly from Sauter?


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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Originally Posted by tre corda
Perhaps a new MC130 piano directly from Sauter?

Very reasonable assumption.


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Originally Posted by Estella
I just ordered a Sauter Masterclass 130 from the official dealer in Hong Kong. I was offered to choose from the two brand new ones in their inventory. But upon testing, these two both sound notably different from the one on display. Both are brighter, and not as sweet and mellow with nice singing tone, as the one on display. And even the two brand new ones sound different from each other too, with one much brighter than the other.

In view of the discussions about tone in this thread, Estella might be interested in this Sally Phillips' Piano Buyer article on Voicing and Tone - https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/voicing-and-tone/

It explains why a piano needs to be tuned and its keys and action regulated before being voiced. Those procedures themselves clear up many tonal problems.

Sally also mentions larger pianos in smaller rooms. She says the concern that they will be too loud can be alleviated by regulation and judicious voicing. A way to deal will some pianos on the brighter side?

Last edited by Withindale; 05/20/22 05:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by tre corda
Yes but what does a factory model mean,.going to Germany to choose one? The MC130 is a factory model, or not? It's on the Sauter catologue,as far as I can see.


I assumed that she meant one of the other two shown to her (but I could be wrong, of course).


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Hi Estella,

I am a new member here and just come across your post. What a coincidence we are both from Hong Kong. Congratulations to your new Sauter piano! Have you eventually decided which one to choose from? It seems to me the Sauter brand is carried by Tom Lee music HK. For the past year, I was also searching for my dream piano and for numerous occasions paying visits to Tom Lee showrooms, testing all their pianos. Sometimes I do feel a bit embarrassed just playing around and no purchase in front of the salesperson, but it’s truly great joy playing with all these beautiful instruments. Cheers smile


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