2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
58 members (Adam Reynolds, AlkansBookcase, APianistHasNoName, Carey, brdwyguy, beeboss, Chris B, Cheeeeee, 8 invisible), 1,593 guests, and 250 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
Bright/mellow muddies the waters sometimes because people describe tonal quality using different language. Some people only use bright in a negative or neutral way. Brilliant is often used for a more complimentary effect.

What’s relevant is that tone only changes (during playing) with volume (ruling out pedal etc), and does so in a fixed way. Volume is determined by force of the hammer. Regulation only affects the action behavior.

So does regulation affect the dynamics? It very well could, depending on the pianist. And with dynamics, tone is also subsequently affected.

But does regulation affect anything essential about the core tonal quality of the piano? No. Most of that is determined already by the piano itself. To some degree, the voicing as well.

This is kind of rehashing what I said before. I can see where different sides are coming from. One case I can think of where regulation would affect tone obviously is if something were really wrong with the action and you could hear it. But that would probably amount to minor repairs rather than just regulation.
When regarding tone, bright and mellow is something that is real, yet mellow is not always what is desired nor is brightness, somewhere between bright and mellow is perhaps ideal.No! tone is not two dimensional.You should know since you have a Bosendorfer.Angella Hewitt's "mellow" would be interesting to know.

Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 375
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by tre corda
Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
Bright/mellow muddies the waters sometimes because people describe tonal quality using different language. Some people only use bright in a negative or neutral way. Brilliant is often used for a more complimentary effect.

What’s relevant is that tone only changes (during playing) with volume (ruling out pedal etc), and does so in a fixed way. Volume is determined by force of the hammer. Regulation only affects the action behavior.

So does regulation affect the dynamics? It very well could, depending on the pianist. And with dynamics, tone is also subsequently affected.

But does regulation affect anything essential about the core tonal quality of the piano? No. Most of that is determined already by the piano itself. To some degree, the voicing as well.

This is kind of rehashing what I said before. I can see where different sides are coming from. One case I can think of where regulation would affect tone obviously is if something were really wrong with the action and you could hear it. But that would probably amount to minor repairs rather than just regulation.
When regarding tone, bright and mellow is something that is real, yet mellow is not always what is desired nor is brightness, somewhere between bright and mellow is perhaps ideal.No! tone is not two dimensional.You should know since you have a Bosendorfer.Angella Hewitt's "mellow" would be interesting to know.

Indeed…with my piano, I was sure it sounded mellow overall at the shop, but I think this was mainly compared to other pianos. It can be made to sound bright, especially in the upper register at high dynamics…but can easily give a mellow tone as well when played with less volume. It also has very interesting resonances. Beautiful sound to my ears, I wouldn’t say it’s the absolute mellowest of pianos (which wouldn’t be ideal anyway) but is very warm overall. Maybe somewhere in the middle and able to do both ends of the spectrum effectively.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
When you change the hammer line and or set off the same blow will produce a different sound.

No one has explained how a pianist knows how to adjust the blow to achieve the same volume as before or why that would be necessary.

There is no point in discussions when people asking the questions do not want to understand the implications of their own arguments.

Last edited by Withindale; 05/19/22 03:52 AM.

Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
Originally Posted by Withindale
When you change the hammer line and or set off the same blow will produce a different sound.

No one has explained how a pianist knows how to adjust the blow to achieve the same volume as before or why that would be necessary.

There is no point in discussions when people asking the questions do not want to understand the implications of their own arguments.

This post should have read:

When you change the hammer line and or set off the same blow will produce a different sound.

No one has explained how a pianist knows to adjust the blow to achieve the same volume as before or why that would be necessary.

There is no point in discussions when people asking the questions do not want to understand the implications of their own arguments.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,804
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,804
Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
Bright/mellow muddies the waters sometimes because people describe tonal quality using different language. Some people only use bright in a negative or neutral way. Brilliant is often used for a more complimentary effect.

What’s relevant is that tone only changes (during playing) with volume (ruling out pedal etc), and does so in a fixed way. Volume is determined by force of the hammer. Regulation only affects the action behavior.

So does regulation affect the dynamics? It very well could, depending on the pianist. And with dynamics, tone is also subsequently affected.

But does regulation affect anything essential about the core tonal quality of the piano? No. Most of that is determined already by the piano itself. To some degree, the voicing as well.

This is kind of rehashing what I said before. I can see where different sides are coming from. One case I can think of where regulation would affect tone obviously is if something were really wrong with the action and you could hear it. But that would probably amount to minor repairs rather than just regulation.
I think I agree with every sentence you wrote. A good explanation IMO.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
So do I. Regulation adjusts the dynamics and the tone produced, not the core tonal quality. Well put.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,854
j&j Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,854
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
I would only take the display model and not the ones you don’t like as much.

Absolutely, new pianos “settle in” on the display floor. It takes a new piano takes a few weeks to a few months to stabilize after being removed from the crate or box. Don’t take a chance. Get the piano on display and write down the serial number. Make sure that serial number is delivered. You’ll be much happier. Best wishes!


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia P230
At least half the waiters in Nashville play better than I
[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
Check the piano's serial number with the factory Find out when it was delivered to the dealer, also date of manufacture.Do we know if Sauter has changed management or the CEO or anything else recently?

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
S
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
The OP has not been back for five days. Her last post indicates she made her decision:

I guess I will trust the quality of Sauter and credibility of the dealer, and take one of the factory models.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
Yes but what does a factory model mean,.going to Germany to choose one? The MC130 is a factory model, or not? It's on the Sauter catologue,as far as I can see.


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.
In other words a hymn. That is all, but that is enough. tre corda


Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
S
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
Originally Posted by tre corda
Yes but what does a factory model mean,.going to Germany to choose one? The MC130 is a factory model, or not? It's on the Sauter catologue,as far as I can see.

She did not clarify what she meant. I just doubt she will return to read any additional advice.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5,580
Perhaps a new MC130 piano directly from Sauter?


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.
In other words a hymn. That is all, but that is enough. tre corda


Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
S
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
PW Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
Originally Posted by tre corda
Perhaps a new MC130 piano directly from Sauter?

Very reasonable assumption.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
Originally Posted by Estella
I just ordered a Sauter Masterclass 130 from the official dealer in Hong Kong. I was offered to choose from the two brand new ones in their inventory. But upon testing, these two both sound notably different from the one on display. Both are brighter, and not as sweet and mellow with nice singing tone, as the one on display. And even the two brand new ones sound different from each other too, with one much brighter than the other.

In view of the discussions about tone in this thread, Estella might be interested in this Sally Phillips' Piano Buyer article on Voicing and Tone - https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/voicing-and-tone/

It explains why a piano needs to be tuned and its keys and action regulated before being voiced. Those procedures themselves clear up many tonal problems.

Sally also mentions larger pianos in smaller rooms. She says the concern that they will be too loud can be alleviated by regulation and judicious voicing. A way to deal will some pianos on the brighter side?

Last edited by Withindale; 05/20/22 05:23 PM.

Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 9,793

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
9000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 9,793
Originally Posted by tre corda
Yes but what does a factory model mean,.going to Germany to choose one? The MC130 is a factory model, or not? It's on the Sauter catologue,as far as I can see.


I assumed that she meant one of the other two shown to her (but I could be wrong, of course).


Search US techs by Zip Code
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!

Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 25
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 25
Hi Estella,

I am a new member here and just come across your post. What a coincidence we are both from Hong Kong. Congratulations to your new Sauter piano! Have you eventually decided which one to choose from? It seems to me the Sauter brand is carried by Tom Lee music HK. For the past year, I was also searching for my dream piano and for numerous occasions paying visits to Tom Lee showrooms, testing all their pianos. Sometimes I do feel a bit embarrassed just playing around and no purchase in front of the salesperson, but it’s truly great joy playing with all these beautiful instruments. Cheers smile


Shigeru Kawai SK2L, Kawai RX1
Page 7 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Gombessa, Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Recommended Songs for Beginners
by FreddyM - 04/16/24 03:20 PM
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,392
Posts3,349,310
Members111,634
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.