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#3217524 05/19/22 09:50 AM
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Hi, I have a Schwander action in a 5' challen (60's) baby grand with thick (0.125) rounded edge keytops (almost forming a "V" shape form the top). I was planning to replace them with normal keytops since i found it to be annoying and a tech tool me it was not original. But after a closer look, I dont see any sign of filling/work etc. They fit almost too perfectly. I cannot find a picture of these by lack of proper search terms.. How do we call these keytops and can they be originals on these actions ?!. Thanks

zxac #3217550 05/19/22 10:39 AM
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Hello, and welcome to Piano World!

I'm not sure, but if I read your thread correctly, you are referring to the white key-tops, correct? If so, and there is a 'V" shape, it sounds like the key-tops have a LOT of wear, and this is what I call "cupping". It's a symptom of wear and a lot of playing over the years. If this is the case, I'm thinking a new set of keytops is what you need.

If this is not correct, I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about. You might post your thread on the "Piano Technicians Forum" here on PW, which is one of the many sub-forums here. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/forums/3/1/piano-tuner-technicians-forum.html

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
zxac #3217565 05/19/22 11:29 AM
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Here !

[img]https://ibb.co/xYqG7bJ[/img]

https://ibb.co/xYqG7bJ

All exactly the same, so not wear

Last edited by zxac; 05/19/22 11:32 AM.
zxac #3217573 05/19/22 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zxac
Here !

[img]https://ibb.co/xYqG7bJ[/img]

https://ibb.co/xYqG7bJ

All exactly the same, so not wear

Okay... the pic is worth more than a 1000 words. smile

That said, boy was I wrong initially. Secondly, that is something I've never seen before on a piano key-top, but my experience is limited. That's a new one on me. Seems to me it might be some kind of specialized customization on the front edges of the key-tops. Either way, I don't think it'd be considered normal (to me at least).

Maybe someone with a lot more knowledge and experience will chime in.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
zxac #3217579 05/19/22 12:48 PM
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I'd suggest you ask on the UK Forum. Someone there may know about tapered keytops. https://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forums/. How much are you prepared to spend on replacing them?


Ian Russell
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zxac #3217580 05/19/22 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by zxac
Here !

[img]https://ibb.co/xYqG7bJ[/img]

https://ibb.co/xYqG7bJ

All exactly the same, so not wear
Almost seems like they are trying to make it look like a black key on the sides! Hopefully experts will come and help. 😁

zxac #3217588 05/19/22 01:03 PM
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zxac #3217595 05/19/22 01:22 PM
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The first images made it look as if the keys themselves were tapered. Not so the second ones. Must be a reason lurking somewhere.


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Originally Posted by Withindale
The first images made it look as if the keys themselves were tapered. Not so the second ones. Must be a reason lurking somewhere.

Just throwing this out there, but is it possible the key-tops were replaced, and had sharp edges front and sides, and the tech/rebuilder decided to be creative with their attempt to get rid of the sharp edges?

Otherwise, I can't imagine a logical purpose for that key-top shape. It also looks like something that would not feel normal while playing, at least to me.

Looking forward to what the pros here have to say...

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
zxac #3217607 05/19/22 02:11 PM
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I'm not a pro, but my guess is that this is an attempt by the keytop manufacturer to create a profile that is "easier" to play by feel. The bevel at the end of the keys creates more of a tactile separation between one white key from its neighbors, so when you run your fingers over them, you have more feedback as to whether you are directly on top of a key, mispositioned a little, or in a valley between two keys. On a flat-profile keyboard, it would arguably be harder to tell. And presumably it's a graded bevel because you don't need that feedback deep into the whites because the sharps are there to serve that purpose.

I have noticed on my pianos that the keytops have different bevel profiles, one more rounded, one more flat. I assume each manufacturer has their own preference...

[Linked Image][Linked Image]


[Linked Image][Linked Image]


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zxac #3217610 05/19/22 02:14 PM
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Quote
Just throwing this out there, but is it possible the key-tops were replaced, and had sharp edges front and sides, and the tech/rebuilder decided to be creative with their attempt to get rid of the sharp edges?


I think that would be too much work with not enough regularity/precision to look good. They are all identical (perfect) and thicker than normal (right?) hence designed for this purpose (?).
If they are original they will probably stay.

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I'm not a pro, but my guess is that this is an attempt by the keytop manufacturer to create a profile that is "easier" to play by feel. The bevel at the end of the keys creates more of a tactile separation between one white key from its neighbors, so when you run your fingers over them, you have more feedback as to whether you are directly on top of a key, mispositioned a little, or in a valley between two keys. On a flat-profile keyboard, it would arguably be harder to tell. And presumably it's a graded bevel because you don't need that feedback deep into the whites because the sharps are there to serve that purpose.

I have noticed on my pianos that the keytops have different bevel profiles, one more rounded, one more flat. I assume each manufacturer has their own preference...

[Linked Image][Linked Image]


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Probably correct. 😁

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Originally Posted by Withindale
I'd suggest you ask on the UK Forum. Someone there may know about tapered keytops. https://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forums/. How much are you prepared to spend on replacing them?

50$ + 2 week-ends ?! I do everything on that old thing! The tech was the piano-mover/tech. "Great" piano BTW, I love it. Was terrible at first, never regulated(cannot play soft etc, bright..) Almost all done now.


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