2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
38 members (David B, Carey, 80k, Bett, Calavera, Abdol, CraiginNZ, 10 invisible), 4,563 guests, and 547 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
H
Hirobo Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
My approach is heavily influenced by limited Working Time Memory & Executive Function.

Sorry, this question, has in one sense been asked a million times before - Alfred or Fabor, or... ??

I think I need to focus on learning to site read, which means learning (working with) easier pieces. The accompanying repertoire books, for Fabor's Adult Piano Adventures, Classics and Popular, seem to be a great way to start to do this. As they are consistent with the All-In-One Course, level of progress, etc..

---

But, how does one 'Map Out a Path of Books', to give an efficient & complete set of theory/method/exercise/repertoire, like a
syllabus of books, a route through all the options for different course material. Or should one pick & choose.

There are so many options it is mind blowing - and thus a huge distraction for someone like me. If an All-In-One Book 1, takes 300-600 hours to complete (with practice), it makes sense for me to make a good choice initially.

---

I feel like I should BUY BOTH the All-In-One Courses - from Alfred and Fabor Piano Adventures.

But, that will perhaps be a big distraction for me, giving too much choice, and harming my limited focus - as I likely flip between the 2 books, indecicively. This is due (in part) to ADD/ADHD, cPTSD, etc., thus I have exceptionally poor Executive Function, Focus, Working Time Memory, etc.. What other are good at, I am bad at. What others are bad at, I am good at. Think of trying to make a fish climb a tree - but put me in water...

---

Fabor's Piano Adventures, seems to win for me, due to;
Additional Repertoire Books - Classics and Popular, Books 1 & 2
Online Audio, available for free, short quick video's easy to access.
Structured Teaching Video's, both short and long, from; Fabor (Piano Adventure), Lets Play Piano Methods, and Piano with Beth.
All In One Course leads to Classical sooner, as well as Popular, Jazz, Blues, etc..

---

So far I am still learning 3 pieces; Amélie (Comptine d'un autre été) from PiaNote, Song For Guy (Elton John) from TutorialsByHugo, Watermark (Enya) from flabiss66 - using the music score to learn from, self-marked with ABCDEFG for each note change. I should probably make a recording and put it on YouTube to help others advise me better - noting that it's still a long way from finished, albeit I can play from start to end.

The first two pieces, sound like the right tune to most people, all be it with; slow pace, pauses, breaks, mistakes, etc.. But then after 35+ years touch typing, I'm still only 98% accurate with a QWERTY Keyboard, so unsure how Notes on a Musical Keyboard will ever be 100% accurate for me wink

---

My approach to learning Piano, will be much like my learning methods for; Salsa Partner Dancing (Lead & Follow), Aerobatic RC Helicopter Flying, High End DTP and Colour Reprographics (Pre-Press), etc..

When learning, most of my time is spent trying to work out what to do, and then REMEBERING It Long Enough To PRACTICE. Thus the actual learning part (in my mind) of hand eye co-ordination & muscle memory, only gets a small part of my overall learning time. My efforts are to try and maximise time spent on this part of learning.

Equating with RC Heli's, one has to learn; which stick to push, which way to push it, and then how far. Although, before one can actually try flying; one has to build, setup mechanically, tune engines, align & balance rotating parts, set control throws, program radio, trim model, etc..

---

I don't do so well with Teachers - I struggle massively learning within established Teacher Student Classes/Lessons - unless they are willing to give me short 5-15 minutes lessons with notes/guide/reference, then allow 1-3 hours practice from those memory guides, during which time I need to be able to maintain focus (which is very difficult). I can't listen and take good notes at the same time. I can't learn/listen to something I don't understand - thus once a teacher has lost me, that's effectively the end of my learning, until the point of confusion is resolved. To try pushing through that problem, usually results in me going backwards. It's particularly tricky for me learning things which are similar but different, as they get muddled. Also learning without a point of reference is very hard - e.g. in Salsa I would write down each move (in my own code), name each move, then name the whole routine - eventually getting to a point where the 'routines name', would trigger a memory of the 7-12 moves. That helped me to Practice the Routine enough times, so that eventually individual moves (guys leads, or invites with subtle pressure or tension, hopefully partner then follows), would start coming out during a freestyle dance.

Video learning is also of little use to me so far. The online Video's are Great for Tips, especially for specific problems - not so good for; structure, avoiding clickable link distraction, not putting hundreds of other distracting ideas in my head, wasting a lot of time getting to relevant information. Video is especially bad for me learning Music Pieces (repertoire), as my memory is terrible, and trying to navigate backwards/forwards again and again and again, through a video is time consuming, compared to reading the music from a sheet (albeit with letters hand written on).

The 3 pieces I'm learning (listed above) seem a poor choice for me to learn/improve/practice site reading. Something a lot easier will perhaps make learning to site read, an overall faster and more rewarding experience.

---

So far, the first week, with new P-515 has exceeded my expectations, both the instrument, and my use (learning & gradual improvement), in that I am able to focus (hyper-focus) on individual pieces I pick to learn - but my mind is everywhere in trying to decide what books to get.

---

I think to begin;
Adult Piano Adventures, All In One Piano Course Book 1 (with Online Media)
along with; Classics Book 1, Popular Book 1, but not Christmas 1.

Is Book 2, for the above three, a good progression.

Within the Alfred choices, they seem so vast and confusing, it is actually off putting. Alfred seems to take one higher in theory, across 3 books.

---

Before Book 2, some suggest picking from;

A Dozen A Day

Jazz, Rags & Blues by Martha Mier, Book 1
Christopher Norton, Micro Jazz, Absolute Beginners, A Level
MasterWork Classics Level 1-2

Then Book 2's.

Then;
The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios & Cadences, Alfred's Basic Piano Library
Hanon, The Virtuoso Pianist, In Sixty Exercises For The Piano

---

But there are so many options, suggestions, and then a bit of bias. Have mostly listened to; Dr. Janci Bronson, Akira Ikegami, pianoTV, Piano Tips, Piano with Beth. Along with lots of posts on Piano World Forums.

---


Any guidance would be appreciated. Before I end up with a library of books, and spend all my time curating them smile

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
H
Hirobo Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
===
- LATE EDIT, little bit more clarity
===

My search for a best approach, is heavily influenced by limited, Working Time Memory & Executive Function.

---

Sorry this question, has in one sense, been asked a million times before - Which Method Book... Alfred or Fabor, or... ??

---

But, how does one 'Map Out a Path of Books', to give an efficient & complete set of theory/method/exercise/repertoire, like a
syllabus of books, a route through all the options for different course material. Or should one pick & choose.

There are so many options it is mind blowing - and thus a huge distraction for someone like me. If an All-In-One Book 1, takes 300-600 hours to complete (with practice), it makes sense for me to make a good choice initially.

---

I feel like I should BUY BOTH the All-In-One Courses - from Alfred and Fabor Piano Adventures.

But, that will perhaps be a big distraction for me, giving too much choice, and harming my limited focus - as I likely flip between the 2 books, indecisively. This is due (in part) to ADD/ADHD, cPTSD, etc., thus I have exceptionally poor Executive Function, Focus, Working Time Memory, etc.. What other are good at, I am bad at. What others are bad at, I am good at. Think of trying to make a fish climb a tree - but put me in water...

---

I think I need to focus on learning to site read, which means learning (working with) easier pieces. The accompanying repertoire books, for Fabor's Adult Piano Adventures, Classics and Popular, seem to be a great way to start to do this. As they are consistent with the All-In-One Course, level of progress, etc..

Fabor's Piano Adventures, seems to win for me, due to;
Additional Repertoire Books - Classics and Popular, Books 1 & 2
Online Audio, available for free, short quick video's easy to access.
Structured Teaching Video's, both short and long, from; Fabor (Piano Adventure), Lets Play Piano Methods, and Piano with Beth.
All In One Course leads to Classical sooner, as well as Popular, Jazz, Blues, etc..

---

So far I am still learning 3 pieces; Amélie (Comptine d'un autre été) from PiaNote, Song For Guy (Elton John) from TutorialsByHugo, Watermark (Enya) from flabiss66 - using the music score to learn from - self-marked with ABCDEFG for each note change. I should probably make a recording and put it on YouTube to help others advise me better - noting that it's still a long way from finished, albeit I can play from start to end.

The first two pieces, sound like the right tune to most people, all be it with; slow pace, pauses, breaks, mistakes, etc.. But then after 35+ years touch typing, I'm still only 98% accurate with a QWERTY Keyboard, so unsure how Notes on a Musical Keyboard will ever be 100% accurate for me wink

---

My approach to learning Piano, will be much like my learning methods for; Salsa Partner Dancing (Lead & Follow), Aerobatic RC Helicopter Flying, High End DTP and Colour Reprographics (Pre-Press), etc..

When learning, most of my time is spent trying to work out what to do, and then REMEBERING It Long Enough To PRACTICE. Thus the actual learning part (in my mind) of hand eye co-ordination & muscle memory, only gets a small part of my overall learning time. My efforts are to try and maximise time spent on this part of learning.

Equating with RC Heli's, one has to learn; which stick to push, which way to push it, and then how far. Although, before one can actually try flying; one has to build, setup mechanically, tune engines, align & balance rotating parts, set control throws, program radio, trim model, etc..

---

I don't do so well with Teachers - I struggle massively learning within established Teacher Student Classes/Lessons - unless they are willing to give me short 5-15 minutes lessons with notes/guide/reference, then allow 1-3 hours practice from those memory guides, during which time I need to be able to maintain focus (which is very difficult). I can't listen and take good notes at the same time. I can't learn/listen to something I don't understand - thus once a teacher has lost me, that's effectively the end of my learning, until the point of confusion is resolved.

To try pushing through that problem, usually results in me going backwards. It's particularly tricky for me learning things which are similar but different, as they get muddled.

Also learning without a point of reference is very hard - e.g. in Salsa I would write down each move (in my own code), name each move, then name the whole routine - eventually getting to a point where the 'routines name', would trigger a memory of the 7-12 moves. That helped me to Practice the Routine enough times, so that eventually individual moves (guys leads, or invites with subtle pressure or tension, hopefully partner then follows), would start coming out during a freestyle dance.

Learning to site read, and practicing lots of pieces, from beginner Repertoire Books 1 & 2, hopefully might achieve something similar.

Video learning is also of limited use to me so far.

The online Video's are Great for Tips, especially for specific problems - but not so good for me, regarding; structure, avoiding clickable link distraction, not putting hundreds of other distracting ideas in my head, wasting a lot of time getting to relevant information.

Video is especially poor way for me to learn Music Pieces (repertoire), as my memory is terrible, and trying to navigate backwards/forwards, again and again and again, with YouTube Ads, through a video is time consuming, compared to reading the music from a sheet (albeit with letters hand written on). I also like a static Music Sheet, so each note or measure, isn't constantly changing position.

The 3 pieces I'm learning (listed above), whilst a lot of fun, have been slow going, and seem a poor choice for me to learn/improve/practice site reading. Something a lot easier (from Book 1, Piano Adventures or Alfred) will perhaps make learning to site read, an overall faster and more rewarding experience.

---

So far, the first week, with new P-515 has exceeded my expectations, both the instrument, and my use (learning & gradual improvement), in that I am able to focus (hyper-focus) on individual pieces I pick to learn - but my mind is everywhere in trying to decide what books to get. I wasn't sure before buying, how consistent I could be in practice, so far, 1-2 hours a day.

---

I think to begin, my best approach is;
-Adult Piano Adventures, All In One Piano Course Book 1 (with Online Media)
along with; Classics Book 1, Popular Book 1, but perhaps not Christmas 1.

Not sure if Book 2, for the above three, is then a good progression.

Within the Alfred choices, they seem so vast and confusing, it is actually off putting. Alfred seems to take student, a level higher in theory, across 3 books. With a wide range of other supplement books, but a confusing choice.

---

Before Book 2, some suggest picking from;

A Dozen A Day

Jazz, Rags & Blues by Martha Mier, Book 1
Christopher Norton, Micro Jazz, Absolute Beginners, A Level
MasterWork Classics Level 1-2

Then doing the Book 2, All-In-One Method Books.

Then perhaps;
The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios & Cadences, Alfred's Basic Piano Library
Hanon, The Virtuoso Pianist, In Sixty Exercises For The Piano

---

But there are so many options, suggestions, and then a bit of bias within some advice. Have mostly listened to; Dr. Janci Bronson, Akira Ikegami, pianoTV, Piano Tips, Piano with Beth. Along with lots of posts on Piano World Forums.

---


Any guidance would be appreciated. Before I end up with a library of books, and spend all my time curating them smile

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,965
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,965
Oh boy! Where to start?

First of all, what music do you want to play? Are you interested in classical music at all? Do you want to play from the sheet or improvise?

Second, piano playing is NOT like typing. It's about making music. There are many things like feeling the groove, making the melody sing, etc. that are not simple to explain in writing but that you can get instantly when someone shows you. Imagine having to learn salsa dancing by reading instructions in a book. You could try but IMO the result will simply not be satisfying.

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,553
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,553
Originally Posted by Hirobo
My search for a best approach, is heavily influenced by limited, Working Time Memory & Executive Function. [...] I think I need to focus on learning to site read

With limited Working Memory & Executive Functions (WM & EF) I wonder why you think that you need to focus on learning to sight read? Sight reading is very demanding for both WM & EF. You'll need to immediately recognise each note, and then play it with the correct rhythm and dynamics. That is very hard!

I think that with limited WM &EF, you'll have a much better chance if you instead focus on practising pieces, and take it one step at the time. First focus on learning the notes, more or less with the correct rhythm. Then focus on the correct rhythm. Then add dynamics. Then listen to yourself and start to polish. The important part is that you focus on one thing at the time, and not several.

BTW, unless the pieces that you are playing are very easy arrangements, they are too difficult for someone who hasn't worked through a first method book yet.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 375
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 375
Hi HIrobo - I have some the same mental challenges (excepting PTSD) but also am mildly dyslexic which makes note reading a challenge.

BASIC METHOD BOOK SERIES: My recommendation would be the Faber Adult all-in-one series since you seem to favor that already. I did 2 Alfred adult books and then the Faber adult books and liked the Faber better. I would advise against doing both. They would be covering similar concepts and it would be a waste of time and stretch you too thin. I only did both due to (FOMO) fear of missing out on some concept.

SUPPLEMENTAL BOOKS:
For sight reading: Faber Piano Adventures Sight Reading Level 1. The Adult AIO books don't address that for some reason. Perhaps the lesson pieces and supplemental repertoire book provide enough music reading for most people.

Masterwork Classics Level 1-2. Many of the pieces in this book are short and easy, which makes them good for sight reading and also a good introduction to playing classical music.

I liked Dozen-A-Day, but dropped the series eventually due to being stretched too thin and having sufficient technical work from the method books and other repertoire pieces.

The Norton and Martha Mier books books would be good supplemental repertoire books.

A book on scales would be good to have on hand as reference material.

Another type of book I've found helpful for reference is a music dictionary.


My other hobby - gardening for an audience. https://naturescaping.org/the-gardens/entrance-garden/
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
H
Hirobo Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 13
Thank you for replies.

Qazsedcft - The powers that be, are now able to identify us from our typing, like a finger print, using timing/rhythm, which can often stand out best on words we type the most (our names). I suppose Typing on a QWERTY Keyboard can help with writing, but doesn't specifically contribute to literary prowess. In a sense, knowing what Notes to press on a Piano, precedes knowing how long to press them, and then remembering them as a whole, and so on, so one can then decide how hard/soft to push them, thus (eventually) adding feeling and musicality to a piece (music score/sheet).

At Salsa I was one of the few people who came back a week later and could remember (due to hours of practice) the routine from the week before. And yet, I got a lot of criticism for not trying, as they mistook confusion and an overloaded brain for lack of effort, and rarely recognised/realised what I was doing between classes. After one (open) Level 4/5 lesson on a Saturday Social, which I did ok at, the teacher pulled me aside and reminded me I (still) wasn't invited to the invitational level 4/5 classes he takes on a Tuesday. Come Tuesday, I stuck to level 3, yet the level 4/5 students were asking me to show/demonstrate the Saturday Night routine they'd forgotten. All aspects of this story, seem to be heavily connected to complex PTSD.

I listen to most genres of music, including Pop, Easy, Classical, Jazz, Hip Hop (Rap), etc.. But not everything translates so well to a Piano, or to my (current) limited beginner abilities.

The three songs listed above - Amélie (Comptine d'un autre été) from PiaNote, Song For Guy (Elton John) from TutorialsByHugo, Watermark (Enya) from flabiss66 - gives flavour of what appeals to me, as well as being songs that suit a Piano.

The songs listed in Fabor's Adult Adventure, Classics and Popular Books, 1 & 2, appeal to me. Jazz, Romantic, Classical, Popular Songs. I like rich textures, especially Song for Guy, but want to develop similar skills with both hands.

PianoTV, suggested the following, after PA Book 1 & 2;
- Fabar, Piano Adventures for Adults 1 & 2, Method Books
- RCM, Preparatory Piano Repertoire, Celebration Series, Perspectives
- Bela Bartok, 1 Mikrokosmos
- Konrad Max Kunz, Late Elementary Piano Scales, Book 1 - 100 canons - online
- Mel Bonis, Album, Tout-Petits
- 2x Kabalevsky, 35 Easy Pieces, Opus 89, and 24 Pieces for Children, Opus 39
- Christopher Norton, Micro Jazz, Absolute Beginners, A Level - ***
- Christine Dorkin, Library, Legends & Lore
- Soda Pop and other delights, by Linda Niamatb, Elementary Piano Solos
- Anne Crosby, Library, Freddie The Frog
- Walter Carroll, Scenes At A Farm & The Countryside

But that list is a minefield for me, too much choice. With PA Classics and Popular, I can easily hear examples of the songs being played, and see the whole score, on a YouTube video, so as to know if I want to learn and play them.


Animisha - As someone who is likely tone deaf, and was asked to mime in School Music Classes, and with limited short term working memory - picking tunes out by ear is a tricky way to learn.

Video's are too difficult to navigate, to get to the information I need. Unlike a static sheet of paper. I have watched a number of video's just to write the notes down, so I can then practice something.

The best I have found so far, is to take a music score sheet, write letters on for the notes, and learn from that. Getting most of the piece with a combination of muscle & mind memory. I presumed an extension to these was to improve the sight reading - whether to mark up the music scores more quickly, or to eventually start playing real time. Sight reading was something I thought would keep improving over time provided I keep working at it, but may never become fluid other than on the very simplest of pieces - but any improvement in my 'sight reading' (using the term as loosely as possible currently) can only help me learn more effectively.

It can take me half a minute to work out some 3 finger chords from a music sheet, so writing the letters down is currently essential to me. On a side note, to have guide on finger number (which finger to use on a given note, when fingers are moving across keys) is I feel essential for me. Saves a lot of time over trial and error to find finger/key combinations that work best.

Learning the notes currently takes me a very long time. The polishing also takes forever, I seem to have taken about 30-50 hours on Song For Guy, and could perhaps spend the same again polishing slight improvements. This piece was probably way too ambitious, but it's something I really wanted to do - it means a lot, and parts of it is sounding very good to my ears, thou still a long way to go.

Lilypad - Fabor PA and Alfreds, Thank you for input. Especially about not missing out in the end - FOMO is a main reason for me thinking of both. Will look at Fabor PA Sight Reading Level 1.

When do you feel MasterWorks Classic 1-2 can be introduced - such as after AIO Book 1 ??

Any particular recommendation for a scale book ??

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 375
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by Hirobo
Lilypad - Fabor PA and Alfreds, Thank you for input. Especially about not missing out in the end - FOMO is a main reason for me thinking of both. Will look at Fabor PA Sight Reading Level 1.

When do you feel MasterWorks Classic 1-2 can be introduced - such as after AIO Book 1 ??

Any particular recommendation for a scale book ??

Masterworks Classics Level 1-2 could be started anytime. I'm a terrible sight reader and reading some of the pieces in this book made me feel like I had sight reading super powers.

The AIO method books will take you through the scales encountered in their pieces and they are presented in a logical sequence. If you want a scale book for reference, the Alfred book would probably be fine.


Originally Posted by Hirobo
PianoTV, suggested the following, after PA Book 1 & 2;
- Fabar, Piano Adventures for Adults 1 & 2, Method Books
- RCM, Preparatory Piano Repertoire, Celebration Series, Perspectives
- Bela Bartok, 1 Mikrokosmos
- Konrad Max Kunz, Late Elementary Piano Scales, Book 1 - 100 canons - online
- Mel Bonis, Album, Tout-Petits
- 2x Kabalevsky, 35 Easy Pieces, Opus 89, and 24 Pieces for Children, Opus 39
- Christopher Norton, Micro Jazz, Absolute Beginners, A Level - ***
- Christine Dorkin, Library, Legends & Lore
- Soda Pop and other delights, by Linda Niamatb, Elementary Piano Solos
- Anne Crosby, Library, Freddie The Frog
- Walter Carroll, Scenes At A Farm & The Countryside

But that list is a minefield for me, too much choice. With PA Classics and Popular, I can easily hear examples of the songs being played, and see the whole score, on a YouTube video, so as to know if I want to learn and play them.

I've used only a few from that list. If I was to pick just one from that list (besides the PA Classics and Popular), it would be the RCM series. Since most method book series end at level 5, my plan for after PA level 5 is to hone my skills by working my way through the RCM syllabus.


My other hobby - gardening for an audience. https://naturescaping.org/the-gardens/entrance-garden/
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,857
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,857
Originally Posted by Animisha
I wonder why you think that you need to focus on learning to sight read? Sight reading is very demanding for both WM & EF. You'll need to immediately recognise each note, and then play it with the correct rhythm and dynamics. That is very hard!
When a novice uses the term "sight read", they often mean "read".
Sight reading (prima vista) is a specialized skill needed for things like accompanying (and sometimes for passing exams).
I can imagine a hybrid for the OP where he learns to read music sufficiently to get at the notes, memorizes or semi-memorizes sections enough to be able to play them, nd gradually the piece comes together.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,941
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,941
Hirobo
I’d like to offer some advice about this part of your post:

The best I have found so far, is to take a music score sheet, write letters on for the notes, and learn from that.

I’d recommend that you not add the note names to the scores but ‘read’ the music without the e note names written in. Writing them in will slow you down from what you want to do which is: see the note on the score and play the note on the piano. It takes time and a lot of practice. Writing in the note names will take you longer to get where you don’t need them in order to play the note.

If you use the Faber books and learn the music, as written and in order, you will see the progress you are making.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,553
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,553
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Animisha
I wonder why you think that you need to focus on learning to sight read? Sight reading is very demanding for both WM & EF. You'll need to immediately recognise each note, and then play it with the correct rhythm and dynamics. That is very hard!
When a novice uses the term "sight read", they often mean "read".
Sight reading (prima vista) is a specialized skill needed for things like accompanying (and sometimes for passing exams).
I can imagine a hybrid for the OP where he learns to read music sufficiently to get at the notes, memorizes or semi-memorizes sections enough to be able to play them, nd gradually the piece comes together.

You are right Keystring, I understood this when I read Hirobo's answer.

Originally Posted by Hirobo
It can take me half a minute to work out some 3 finger chords from a music sheet, so writing the letters down is currently essential to me

Hirobo, yes, you'll need to learn note recognition. There are apps that can help you with that, or online programs, for instance: Name that note


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 73
S
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
S
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 73
I have similar problems as you Hirobo.
My suggestion is to pick one method ( I use Alfred all in one adult) and -most importantly - STICK with it.

It’s very easy to get distracted trying other methods, online courses: oh what about ragtime ? Ah, easy piano movies soundtracks, hey the beatles easy piano….yes, clair the lune…omg Jazz! etc etc

Focusing and finishing a method would be already a great goal to achieve, so you have the foundations to then try what you like. Otherwise the risk is that you take on many things but do not really complete anything.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 375
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by dogperson
Hirobo
I’d like to offer some advice about this part of your post:

The best I have found so far, is to take a music score sheet, write letters on for the notes, and learn from that.

I’d recommend that you not add the note names to the scores but ‘read’ the music without the e note names written in. Writing them in will slow you down from what you want to do which is: see the note on the score and play the note on the piano. It takes time and a lot of practice. Writing in the note names will take you longer to get where you don’t need them in order to play the note.

dogperson - Thank you for mentioning that. I saw that and meant to comment that it wasn't a good practice, but it slipped my mind as I was posting. I'm glad you caught it and said something.


Originally Posted by Animisha
Hirobo, yes, you'll need to learn note recognition. There are apps that can help you with that, or online programs, for instance: Name that note

Animisha - I'm normally not a fan of random note recognition practice. I've tried the book "Super Sight Reading Secrets" and PDF pages from "Level Up". They got boring pretty quickly and I found myself dreading working on sight reading that way. By comparison, learning note recognition via playing music is something I look forward to as an adventure of discovery.

Curiosity did get the better of me and I tried "Name That Note". I discovered that at least on my first trial, it's lots of fun.


My other hobby - gardening for an audience. https://naturescaping.org/the-gardens/entrance-garden/
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,580
T
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,580
Even within the Faber series, there are books that focus on Classical and ones that focus on Jazz & Blues. I have a teacher and she assign pieces out of the Faber Classical and Jazz & Blues book simultaneously. I worked on "Summertime" by Gershwin, "Stormy Weather", "Song of India" by Rimsky-Korsakov, Handel "Sarabande" in Dm, etc. There is no rule that says you need to focus on any genre of music.

Some of the Jazz pieces you'd play in swing rhythm. The Classical pieces would be straightforward counting. When you get into 19th century pieces, some of them would sound better stretching some of the notes.

I've been playing long enough not to stick to just repertoire books. My teacher is flexible. Before Christmas I suggested "Gymnopedie" by Satie (not in the book) and she said yes. We spent 3 weeks on that piece. There are individual pieces I wanted to play I'd find a version online. At any given time I'd be practicing up to 3 pieces. When I'm learning a piece, I'd make sure I finish learning the notes before starting more pieces. My pieces vary from RCM level 3 to 8. I don't need to learn every piece from scratch. Pieces I listened to before including Classical pieces, church hymns & Christmas tunes I listened to many times so the melody is in my head. Just need to work on the lower notes (accompaniment).

The end of the day any piece would help you improve your reading. You'd get to the point of being able to play from any sheet music.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,990
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,990
Originally Posted by dogperson
Hirobo
I’d like to offer some advice about this part of your post:

Quote
The best I have found so far, is to take a music score sheet, write letters on for the notes, and learn from that.

I’d recommend that you not add the note names to the scores but ‘read’ the music without the e note names written in. Writing them in will slow you down from what you want to do which is: see the note on the score and play the note on the piano. It takes time and a lot of practice. Writing in the note names will take you longer to get where you don’t need them in order to play the note.

If you use the Faber books and learn the music, as written and in order, you will see the progress you are making.

This advice is almost universal, from every experienced teacher (and most students) here. If you want to read music, you must practice _reading music_, not reading letters.

If you have "problems with executive function", the _worst_ thing you can do is to try to learn from two sources simultaneously:

. . . Pick _one_ set of books, and use it -- and only it -- until you've mastered its material.

"Playing the piano" requires both mental effort, and physical skill -- if you can't play something, you haven't mastered it. That is frustrating for many adult beginners --

. . . "When can I be finished with these trivial pieces ????"

The only answer is:

. . . "When you can play them correctly."


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,933
E
EPW Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,933
Take deep breathes and learn relaxation skills. This can help when you get frustrated at the slow base learning the piano can take you. We have all been there and believe us, we all wish there was a two week course on how to play🙃😀


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Happy 4th!
Happy 4th of July
Happy 4th!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Chord help
by Moo :) - 07/05/22 02:18 AM
Yamaha U3 or equivalent upright
by Tom Ryshka - 07/05/22 01:35 AM
A comparison of two very different pianos!
by Joseph Fleetwood - 07/04/22 02:17 PM
Home Studio Recordings on Bosendorfer 225
by James Gordon - 07/04/22 01:39 PM
Looking for good online piano course for beginner
by mwsheeler - 07/04/22 12:12 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,804
Posts3,205,429
Members105,714
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5