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I've recently purchased a new digital piano due to moving into a flat where owning an acoustic piano is impossible. Prior to trying them, I was heavily influenced by the opinions of posters on this forum (and this thread specifically) so I thought I would feedback on my own experiences of the Yamaha CLP-7xxs vs Kawai CAxxs debate. Hopefully it can be useful to someone making the same decision.
I'm around ABRSM grade 7 level - I've passed grade 6 and had lessons for a couple more years without doing more exams - so I am by no means an expert but do know my way around a keyboard. I learned on a Chappell upright with a gorgeous sound and very light/loose touch, and my teacher's grand piano which was amazing. Since then I've played mostly on a variety of uprights. The only digital piano I previously owned was a CLP-320 which was ok but I was fairly unimpressed by.
Over three sessions, I spent around two and a half hours playing on a variety of CLP-7xx and CAXX in a music store. The first session I played the CLP-785 and CLP-745, second session I played CA79, CA99, CLP-775 and CLP-745 and the final session was just on the CLP-775. I went into the shop with a fairly negative vibe as I've never really liked DPs, and was only buying one due to circumstances. I expected to like CLP-745 the most, as I've only read good things about it (e.g. it being the "sweet spot" for this range of Yamaha's), and many negative comments about the other DPs. My budget meant I couldn't consider anything more expensive. I would have liked to try a Roland but could not find any in stock.
Overall, I was blown away by how good all of them sounded and played. The difference to my old CLP-320 is just colossal both in the sound and feel. Still a long way from a grand or decent upright, but for the first time I really enjoyed playing a DP. I would genuinely have been happy with any of them but here were my feelings on the direct comparisons of these models:
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In terms of touch, the CA79 and CA99 felt most like an acoustic piano, significantly more than the Yamahas. But despite this, I wasn't sure that I actually preferred the actions of the Kawais. I agree with other posters here that the Yamaha's are heavier, but I also found that I had better control over the dynamics with the Yamahas, despite feeling less like an acoustic. This was particularly the case with the 775/785, which I really enjoyed playing. Overall it was a toss up between the CA99 and CLP-775/785, but I liked them for different reasons. I didn't have the chance to directly compare the 775 to the 785 on the same day so struggled to notice a difference between them (I played them 6 weeks apart). The 745 was definitely lighter than the 775 and 785 but I just didn't like it quite as much - can't put my finger on why though.
In terms of sound, they all sounded great but the more expensive models sounded better - the CA99/775/785. I think probably due to the larger speakers. But there wasn't a huge difference - all sounded clearly distinct to an acoustic noise to my ears but nonetheless all sounded excellent. I brought along my own headphones (AKG-K240) and this is where I noticed the biggest difference. All the Yamahas sounded significantly better than the Kawais with headphones on. Much clearer and fuller sound, and I was impressed again with how great they were. The Kawais still sounded good but not as impressive. Not too much difference between the models though, with the 745 sounding like the 775 and 785 with headphones on. And just a world apart from my CLP-320. This factored a lot into my decision as the majority of my playing time will likely be with headphones.
The Interface of the 775 and 785 was the best. Very intuitive, easy and the touch screen looked great. But not really important to me and didn't really influence me much.
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In the end I plumped for the CLP-775 but it was close. My original intention was to go for the one most similar to an acoustic, in which case the CA99 would have been the winner - joint best sound (without headphones) and most realistic touch. But I actually enjoyed playing the 775 and 785 more and felt I had the most control over the dynamics on those instruments. I'm unsure if there is a technical reason for that or just down to preference/playing style. I was very surprised by this given what I had read and my inclination for something as most like an acoustic as possible. The 745 was decent but did not sound as good - but it was also the cheapest. If I was to play exclusively with headphones it's possible I may have gone for it. In terms of 775 vs 785, I liked both but played them 6 weeks apart so could not directly compare - price was the deciding factor in going for the 775 given that. The final deciding factor for me was the number of reports of unreliability of Kawai DPs. Despite Yamahas being more widely owned, a disproportionate number of reports on forums like these seems to be of unreliability for the Kawai. Whether or not this is actually an issue, I'm pretty sure I would have started obsessing over even the tiniest possible imperfections arising had I gone for the Kawai (I have that type of personality) and that would have detracted from my enjoyment.
So far I've owned the 775 for 3 weeks and I love it. Given the negativity around the action online I'm really surprised I ended up liking it so much. My 7 year old son is also learning on it and has no issues with the "heavy" action - having previously been playing on the very light Chappell I learned on. I asked his teacher about this before purchase and she said it didn't really matter - acoustic would be best but any decent modern digital piano is fine for learning at his stage.
So overall conclusion - all these DPs were great and I would have been happy with any. I'm an intermediate player and it is possible a more sophisticated player could discern more differences, but my own personal preferences meant the 775 edged it for me.
I've recently purchased a new digital piano due to moving into a flat where owning an acoustic piano is impossible. Prior to trying them, I was heavily influenced by the opinions of posters on this forum (and this thread specifically) so I thought I would feedback on my own experiences of the Yamaha CLP-7xxs vs Kawai CAxxs debate. Hopefully it can be useful to someone making the same decision.
I'm around ABRSM grade 7 level - I've passed grade 6 and had lessons for a couple more years without doing more exams - so I am by no means an expert but do know my way around a keyboard. I learned on a Chappell upright with a gorgeous sound and very light/loose touch, and my teacher's grand piano which was amazing. Since then I've played mostly on a variety of uprights. The only digital piano I previously owned was a CLP-320 which was ok but I was fairly unimpressed by.
Over three sessions, I spent around two and a half hours playing on a variety of CLP-7xx and CAXX in a music store. The first session I played the CLP-785 and CLP-745, second session I played CA79, CA99, CLP-775 and CLP-745 and the final session was just on the CLP-775. I went into the shop with a fairly negative vibe as I've never really liked DPs, and was only buying one due to circumstances. I expected to like CLP-745 the most, as I've only read good things about it (e.g. it being the "sweet spot" for this range of Yamaha's), and many negative comments about the other DPs. My budget meant I couldn't consider anything more expensive. I would have liked to try a Roland but could not find any in stock.
Overall, I was blown away by how good all of them sounded and played. The difference to my old CLP-320 is just colossal both in the sound and feel. Still a long way from a grand or decent upright, but for the first time I really enjoyed playing a DP. I would genuinely have been happy with any of them but here were my feelings on the direct comparisons of these models:
-----------
In terms of touch, the CA79 and CA99 felt most like an acoustic piano, significantly more than the Yamahas. But despite this, I wasn't sure that I actually preferred the actions of the Kawais. I agree with other posters here that the Yamaha's are heavier, but I also found that I had better control over the dynamics with the Yamahas, despite feeling less like an acoustic. This was particularly the case with the 775/785, which I really enjoyed playing. Overall it was a toss up between the CA99 and CLP-775/785, but I liked them for different reasons. I didn't have the chance to directly compare the 775 to the 785 on the same day so struggled to notice a difference between them (I played them 6 weeks apart). The 745 was definitely lighter than the 775 and 785 but I just didn't like it quite as much - can't put my finger on why though.
In terms of sound, they all sounded great but the more expensive models sounded better - the CA99/775/785. I think probably due to the larger speakers. But there wasn't a huge difference - all sounded clearly distinct to an acoustic noise to my ears but nonetheless all sounded excellent. I brought along my own headphones (AKG-K240) and this is where I noticed the biggest difference. All the Yamahas sounded significantly better than the Kawais with headphones on. Much clearer and fuller sound, and I was impressed again with how great they were. The Kawais still sounded good but not as impressive. Not too much difference between the models though, with the 745 sounding like the 775 and 785 with headphones on. And just a world apart from my CLP-320. This factored a lot into my decision as the majority of my playing time will likely be with headphones.
The Interface of the 775 and 785 was the best. Very intuitive, easy and the touch screen looked great. But not really important to me and didn't really influence me much.
----------
In the end I plumped for the CLP-775 but it was close. My original intention was to go for the one most similar to an acoustic, in which case the CA99 would have been the winner - joint best sound (without headphones) and most realistic touch. But I actually enjoyed playing the 775 and 785 more and felt I had the most control over the dynamics on those instruments. I'm unsure if there is a technical reason for that or just down to preference/playing style. I was very surprised by this given what I had read and my inclination for something as most like an acoustic as possible. The 745 was decent but did not sound as good - but it was also the cheapest. If I was to play exclusively with headphones it's possible I may have gone for it. In terms of 775 vs 785, I liked both but played them 6 weeks apart so could not directly compare - price was the deciding factor in going for the 775 given that. The final deciding factor for me was the number of reports of unreliability of Kawai DPs. Despite Yamahas being more widely owned, a disproportionate number of reports on forums like these seems to be of unreliability for the Kawai. Whether or not this is actually an issue, I'm pretty sure I would have started obsessing over even the tiniest possible imperfections arising had I gone for the Kawai (I have that type of personality) and that would have detracted from my enjoyment.
So far I've owned the 775 for 3 weeks and I love it. Given the negativity around the action online I'm really surprised I ended up liking it so much. My 7 year old son is also learning on it and has no issues with the "heavy" action - having previously been playing on the very light Chappell I learned on. I asked his teacher about this before purchase and she said it didn't really matter - acoustic would be best but any decent modern digital piano is fine for learning at his stage.
So overall conclusion - all these DPs were great and I would have been happy with any. I'm an intermediate player and it is possible a more sophisticated player could discern more differences, but my own personal preferences meant the 775 edged it for me.
Congrats on your purchase. I felt much the same way about all the factors you mentioned when I sampled them, and settled on the 785!
First post on this forum .I've read the last 20/30 pages of this thread. I'm the seek of my first DP. I own a late 80s Young Chang U121 that is at my parents house. I love how it sounds. I moved a while ago and it is a long time i'm not playing. I was an average low intermediate player, but i really enjoyed playing and i want to start again. I've recently got a new house with enough space for a piano and i'm debating if it is better to move the upright here or buying a DP. Because many reason for few years i'll probably can play only at night with headphones, so i really like the idea of a DP. Next week i'll go to test few DP in a nice store. I really like the CFX sound and i'm torn because the even if CLP745 is a little above my budget, but i think that 775 is probably a better value. It's a big step, 775 it's very expensive in italy. It is so much better in day to day use than the 745? I wanna try the Ca79 too, because it is probably the best bang for your bucks, but i really don't like the touch screen and from the recording i don't like the kawai piano sound. How reliable are the 745 and the 775?
Hi there! I recorded the first song with the "Fortepiano Scarlatti" voice (a deep and old sound of an ancient piano) to compare it with "Harpshichord 8´". I share with you the differences in case you want to contrast both voices:
I went to the shop yesterday to try mostly the 745 and 775 but i tried few pianos at all price point. They had the 745 and the ca79 on show you can try and they had only one 775 in stock but was in the box and they did not let me to try it. So i tried the CVP805 that was the closest action on display and i really liked the keyboard. For my taste the 745 keyboard action was way too soft. I've never played a grand piano only upright. The CA79 was very nice but the touchscreen and the software are orendous IMHO. At the end of the story i brought home a black CLP775 and i really love it. The binoural sampling is amazing and i'll play 99% at night with the headphones so it is really important to me. Probably the CA79 would have been the best bang for bucks, but i liked more the Yamaha.
Anybody tried USB audio input interface of Yamaha CLP-735? Is it ok for playing software VST through the piano's internal speakers, in terms of sound quality and delay?
I've bought CLP-735. I used Kawai ES-100 for 8 years before. Quick review:
1. Action is slightly better than ES-100, but not so much. Surface is also nicer to touch.
2. Sound is awful. I believe that it's not my taste, but objectively it loses completely to 8 years old ES-100. Through the internal speakers the sound is dull and closed, like from a closed box. I increased brightness, disabled Intelligent Acoustic Control, and it became slightly better, but still much worse than ES-100 producing clean and open sound.
Through headphones sound is better, not dull, but too synthetic, some high keys resembles more an electric piano than acoustic one. Disabling binaural mode helps a little, but still I think ES-100 have more natural sound.
Bosendorfer is extremely mellow. With increased brightness it became too syntectic, worse than CFX. Upright is even worse.
3. Pedals are too heavy. I'm a 55kg man, and when I press both left and right pedals, it lifts me from my bench.
@C. L., I'm afraid I can only confirm your experience.
During the past month, I tested/tried many digital pianos during three lengthy visits to two different specialized stores.
Last Thursday, I tried the 735 and 745 side by side. Although their actions bear the same designations, they're actually different where I liked to play the 745 version (with the "wooden elements used in the white keys") the most. The sound out of the speakers of the 745 was doable, although I consider *no* digital piano to have a sound that I'd really truly enjoy musically. Switching to the 735 I had the same experience as you describe, immediately rendering it unusable to my taste. I was a bit shocked, to be honest.
The higher numbers (775, 785) were strangely heavy, unpleasant and fatiguing to play.
All in all, digital pianos in general still are compromises that have a long way to go before they become really inspiring as musical instruments (but hey, I'm a lover of proper acoustic instruments so am probably being super-critical here).
I'd hope you have the opportunity to cancel your 735 purchase in favor of something that better suits you.
Try in person before investing in any instrument -- it is *utterly essential*.
I don't read all the pages in this topic, but does anyone have a solution for the boxy sound?
Sorry to know that. Maybe one way to improve the situation is to use yamaha monitors (eg. HS8) or some other brand of choice.
Originally Posted by HZPiano
although I consider *no* digital piano to have a sound that I'd really truly enjoy musically.
Heard of Lara6683? P-255. If you don't enjoy what she plays on the P-255 - along with the sounds, then the issue could be just you. Not the digital pianos.
Originally Posted by HZPiano
Try in person before investing in any instrument -- it is *utterly essential*.
I've bought CLP-735. I used Kawai ES-100 for 8 years before. Quick review:
1. Action is slightly better than ES-100, but not so much. Surface is also nicer to touch.
2. Sound is awful. I believe that it's not my taste, but objectively it loses completely to 8 years old ES-100. Through the internal speakers the sound is dull and closed, like from a closed box. I increased brightness, disabled Intelligent Acoustic Control, and it became slightly better, but still much worse than ES-100 producing clean and open sound.
Through headphones sound is better, not dull, but too synthetic, some high keys resembles more an electric piano than acoustic one. Disabling binaural mode helps a little, but still I think ES-100 have more natural sound.
Bosendorfer is extremely mellow. With increased brightness it became too syntectic, worse than CFX. Upright is even worse.
3. Pedals are too heavy. I'm a 55kg man, and when I press both left and right pedals, it lifts me from my bench.
I have a CLP 725 and sound through speakers is indeed crap - but this has been my experience with the built in speakers on most consoles models I've played and I don't use the speakers so to me it's a non-issue. The pedals on my instrument feel close to my acoustic U1 as far as weight is concerned. If at all possible you should probably look into getting a pair of powered speakers or an old hifi system - pretty much anything you can lay your hands on will probably be an improvement over the built in crap.
2. Sound is awful. I believe that it's not my taste, but objectively it loses completely to 8 years old ES-100. Through the internal speakers the sound is dull and closed, like from a closed box.
And that's not surprising. For many years you've been playing on a portable digital piano, where the speakers are pointed at the performer, not somewhere on the floor under the piano. I think you'd get the same impression from other brands' console models. I also think you'd like the sound of the P‑515 a lot more, since it's also a portable digital piano where the speakers are aimed directly at the performer.
UPDATE: I tried different settings, and found CFX with "Bright1" EQ and "Soft1" touch is kind of ok for quick practice through the internal speakers. Other sounds are absolutely unusable, including Bosendorfer.
Also the piano has builtin USB MIDI/audio interface, so I just connected it to my laptop, run Pianoteq, and surprisingly it sounds good even through the piano's speakers. Not great, but good, and definitely much better than builtin CFX.
Try routing the audio output of the digital piano to high quality amplifier and speaker system. The CFX sound will sound very nice for sure. You can even insert a multi-band equaliser system if needed. But probably won't need the equaliser system.
UPDATE: I tried different settings, and found CFX with "Bright1" EQ and "Soft1" touch is kind of ok for quick practice through the internal speakers. Other sounds are absolutely unusable, including Bosendorfer.
although I consider *no* digital piano to have a sound that I'd really truly enjoy musically.
Originally Posted by SouthPark
Heard of Lara6683? P-255. If you don't enjoy what she plays on the P-255 - along with the sounds, then the issue could be just you. Not the digital pianos.
Originally Posted by HZPiano
Try in person before investing in any instrument -- it is *utterly essential*.
I have been reading through the CLP-700 series thread, yes, all 76 pages ... and i was wondering if you guys would still recommend the CLP725, now that the 700 series have been out for a while & tested.
The general overall sense i get is, that the CLP745 is kinda the sweet spot and the rather expenssive CLP785 is obviously the cream of the crop.
I was looking for an CLP for my bedroom upstairs and the the small compact build 725 would fit in perfectly, plus it is the cheapest option around 1500 euros. If i had the space i definitely would had gone for an 745 or higher. I have not been able to test the 700 series due to, well, what was happening in the world these passed years.
Is the action good enough on the 725? I dont care much for the bells and the whistles on the higher models, i just care for the action/touch and a reasonable sound (through headphones) ... or would you guys still recommend the 735 or even the 745? I believe the action is the same on 725, 735 and the 745 (except the wooden keys on 745) The 735 and the 745 still are a bit wider, larger and heavier than the smaller 725 tough ... and thats what troubles me. I dont know ... maybe its an optical illusion and the 735 or 745 arent that much bigger at all?
... and i was wondering if you guys would still recommend the CLP725, now that the 700 series have been out for a while & tested.