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Originally Posted by peterws
Some of us so obviously lack sophistication . . . .

is peterws saying the cabinet is unrefined or the slabs are ?

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I tried an older Yamaha YDP131 today. Sounded plenty loud to me. Also tried an older Casio Privia slab, action felt great too. Lighter than the Yamaha, but the sound from the Yamaha cabinet was much more satisfying I have to say. Especially in the bass notes.
More food for thought.

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Originally Posted by KawaFanboi
Originally Posted by peterws
Some of us so obviously lack sophistication . . . .

is peterws saying the cabinet is unrefined or the slabs are ?

I think he’s saying he doesn’t mind the sound from his slab (ES110). Self-deprecation.

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Originally Posted by MoltoDiletante
I think he’s saying he doesn’t mind the sound from his slab (ES110). Self-deprecation.

/salute, I also think es110 sounds great, not the new $900 great, but $500-700 definitely great.

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Originally Posted by Dude X
I tried an older Yamaha YDP131 today. Sounded plenty loud to me. Also tried an older Casio Privia slab, action felt great too. Lighter than the Yamaha, but the sound from the Yamaha cabinet was much more satisfying I have to say. Especially in the bass notes.
More food for thought.

It's less to do with loud, more to do with amplification quality.
What I'm saying is that with any like for like slab /cabinet pianos ---- pianos which are of the same level e.g., 2 beginner pianos, 2 intermediate pianos etc.----if you add monitors to the slab, it will sound better than the cabinet piano. The exception to that is when you buy a cabinet in the top range e.g., CLP785, CA99 etc., or the hybrids.


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Well I finally got to try an ES110 and CN39 today.
Unfortunate the ES520 had been sold before I got there.
ES110 was amazing, YouTube doesn’t do it justice, action heavier than I expected too which was a nice surprise.
CN39 was also amazing and felt much more like playing a real piano. Actions were similar, the let off wasn’t that noticeable to me which was also a good thing too.
In short I’d have both, but think I’m going to go for a CN29. It suits my budget and I think I like the cabinet format more than the slab.
I’ll update again once I have it.

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Originally Posted by Dude X
Well I finally got to try an ES110 and CN39 today.
Unfortunate the ES520 had been sold before I got there.
ES110 was amazing, YouTube doesn’t do it justice, action heavier than I expected too which was a nice surprise.
CN39 was also amazing and felt much more like playing a real piano. Actions were similar, the let off wasn’t that noticeable to me which was also a good thing too.
In short I’d have both, but think I’m going to go for a CN29. It suits my budget and I think I like the cabinet format more than the slab.
I’ll update again once I have it.

That's entirely because you're comparing the beginner entry level slab with the CN39. They are not comparable.

The ES520 would have been a better comparison. I suspect had you played that, you'd be thinking more about this.


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> They are not comparable.

Well they aren't exactly beyond compare, despite the different "level". I think the ES110 feels quite good for entry level, though the CN29/39 sure seemed better to me. I wasn't so sure the CAs were much better, despite next higher "level" and price.
I understand the ES520 and KDP110/120 should be quite similar to the ES110 (but the latter having double sensor only).
The odd thing was that the ES8, presumably same RHIII as the CN29/39 in the same store, was quite different, still nice but quite annoyingly bouncy on key return. Maybe due to batch variation or age/wear. Similar variation might also be present in the entry range.

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Originally Posted by _sem_
> I wasn't so sure the CAs were much better, despite next higher "level" and price.


I agree, I also tried the CA59 for a short stunt, but didn't really notice the difference from the CN39. I'm sure the wooden action is worth it for more experienced players, but at my level even the CN39/CN29 RHIII is already a huge step up for me.


Originally Posted by Doug M.
> The ES520 would have been a better comparison. I suspect had you played that, you'd be thinking more about this.

Maybe so, but it wasn't there, I could only compare what was there at the time. I'm sure the ES520 would be just as good as the CN29, but with no where to compare them I have to base my decision on what I know and have tried for myself. If my budget was tighter I'd have no hesitation buying the ES110, but hopefully the CN29 will last a bit longer before needing replaced / repaired.

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Originally Posted by _sem_
> They are not comparable.

Well they aren't exactly beyond compare, despite the different "level". I think the ES110 feels quite good for entry level, though the CN29/39 sure seemed better to me. I wasn't so sure the CAs were much better, despite next higher "level" and price.
I understand the ES520 and KDP110/120 should be quite similar to the ES110 (but the latter having double sensor only).
The odd thing was that the ES8, presumably same RHIII as the CN29/39 in the same store, was quite different, still nice but quite annoyingly bouncy on key return. Maybe due to batch variation or age/wear. Similar variation might also be present in the entry range.

Point being that if you were choosing between a slab versus a cabinet piano, these are the correct comparisons by action.

ES920, ES8, MP7SE <------------>CN29/CN39 [RHIII action]
ES520<---------------------------------->KDP120 [RHCII action]
ES110<---------------------------------->KDP110 [RHC1 action]

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/20/22 07:41 AM.

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Originally Posted by _sem_
>
The odd thing was that the ES8, presumably same RHIII as the CN29/39 in the same store, was quite different, still nice but quite annoyingly bouncy on key return.

_sem_, I think 90% of your posts on PW include this observation...

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
...
ES110<---------------------------------->KDP110 [RHC1 action]

KDP110 specs say RHCII, triple sensor.
KDP120 also RHCII but release notes said improved or whatever.
There's a KDP70 with double-sensor RHC, likely matching the ES110.

> I also tried the CA59 for a short stunt, but didn't really notice the difference from the CN39.

I think there are many subtle differences, after all the construction is totally different, I just wasn't sure the CA was much better overall.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
_sem_, I think 90% of your posts on PW include this observation...

Hehe I keep nagging because we still didn't get any meaningful answer from you, please take it personally smile smile smile

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Originally Posted by _sem_
Originally Posted by Kawai James
_sem_, I think 90% of your posts on PW include this observation...

Hehe I keep nagging because we still didn't get any meaningful answer from you, please take it personally smile smile smile

I've come to realize kawai james is not allowed to answer all types of questions especially if the answer may not cast a positive light on kawai products. we should be understanding _sem_ that's just how the world works.

my es520 rhc bounces as much if not more than the es920 rh3. I haven't found that it interrupts my playing in any way, but i agree it's possible on the off chance that your finger catches a key at exactly the moment after rebound, but I don't think music rhythm is precise enough for this to matter.

Last edited by KawaFanboi; 05/20/22 08:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by KawaFanboi
I've come to realize kawai james is not allowed to answer all types of questions especially if the answer may not cast a positive light on kawai products. we should be understanding _sem_ that's just how the world works.

Hehehehe do know he isn't allowed answer everything. Yet he feels free to bug me for pointing it out repeatedly, which I do because folks come up with this bounciness again and again. I think we're here to point out the odd issues the companies don't say, and I think key action is a biggie with DPs. I know how the world works, so I didn't buy the ES8 then. I don't have so much understanding for bouncy keys wink

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I have an observation and a question, as I read through these threads for casual reading.

- Seems people should be practicing more and writing here less. My posts usually take a bit of time writing and reviewing before posting; Anyway...it's good entertainment.

- Question on the bouncing issue people talk about. Does it get in the way of your development and practicing? or is it just an annoyance when you stop and explore the flaws and features of a DP.

Personally, I can't ever remember in my 40+ years of playing gigs and practicing that I ever stopped to notice a bounce. A sluggish attempt at a weighted action similar to an acoustic grand, IMHO, is what riles me

It has been said before, acoustic pianos have lots of noises and stuff that most people don't notice cause you can't muffle the sound.


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Originally Posted by 36251
I have an observation and a question, as I read through these threads for casual reading.

- Seems people should be practicing more and writing here less. My posts usually take a bit of time writing and reviewing before posting; Anyway...it's good entertainment.

- Question on the bouncing issue people talk about. Does it get in the way of your development and practicing? or is it just an annoyance when you stop and explore the flaws and features of a DP.

Personally, I can't ever remember in my 40+ years of playing gigs and practicing that I ever stopped to notice a bounce. A sluggish attempt at a weighted action similar to an acoustic grand, IMHO, is what riles me

It has been said before, acoustic pianos have lots of noises and stuff that most people don't notice cause you can't muffle the sound.

Some guys here wouldn't know an acoustic piano until it hit 'em in the face . . .
And if they played one that bounced . . . .they'd call it "lively"
My ES110 bounces; so did my old DGXs. They were and are indeed the liveliest of the keyboards then and now.
I mean, how quick is the action when the activated key, having returned, has kindly decided to assist you in repeating it, if you so desired!


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> I mean, how quick is the action when the activated key, having returned, has kindly decided to assist you in repeating it, if you so desired!

I think the bouncing on key release is clearly a side-effect of the aim to make the key return up as fast as possible for fast repetition, upon hitting a hard stop. The RHIII in the CN29/39 seems to show this can happen without too much bounce. The RHIII in that ES8, that bouncing may feel overdone even in the "same" action. None of the acoustics I've played bounced as much, though sure there may be more "lively" examples. It'd be great if somebody posted advice on how exactly to tame a "lively" RHIII, which damping tape or something, can't be rocket science.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by _sem_
>
The odd thing was that the ES8, presumably same RHIII as the CN29/39 in the same store, was quite different, still nice but quite annoyingly bouncy on key return.

_sem_, I think 90% of your posts on PW include this observation...

Kind regards,
James
x

I've noticed this before on a number of occasions too...Before he mentioned it, I don't recall a single post on the issue.


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Originally Posted by _sem_
I think the bouncing on key release is clearly a side-effect of the aim to make the key return up as fast as possible for fast repetition, upon hitting a hard stop. The RHIII in the CN29/39 seems to show this can happen without too much bounce. The RHIII in that ES8, that bouncing may feel overdone even in the "same" action. None of the acoustics I've played bounced as much, though sure there may be more "lively" examples. It'd be great if somebody posted advice on how exactly to tame a "lively" RHIII, which damping tape or something, can't be rocket science.

Though it contradicts your “cut and paste” du jour, I noticed it, seven years ago with the CN25:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/review-kawai-digital-pianos-cn25-ca97-and-cp2/

But it doesn’t bother me on the ES8 I own, nor the ES920 we have at the university. In retrospect, I may prefer that over the “spongy” bottom of the GFII, though I didn’t find it objectionable in the CA97 review (which was my first experience with that action).


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