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Hey
I just joined this forum recently, so hello to all of you.
I have just finished a short piece for piano, and would really appreciate feedback from people with practical knowledge of the keys smile
I write and produce music, but due to a disability I can't play the piano.
It would therefore be a tremendous help to hear from players if my score contains ergonomical blunders and issues regarding hand and finger position/movements.
The piece is rather complex but I still strive to communicate a clear message to the player.
Best regards
Kasper
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I think it's true what they say. As you get older, your brain slows down a bit. I have some experience with musical scores and I even play the piano, although not as well as I used to, but I really don't understand your score. And the longer I stare, the dumber I feel.

For my peace of mind, I hope you know little about harmony. I hope your alterations are not related to a harmony or even a key. You are making it all up on the spot.

But if there is an elaborate plan and I missed it, then apparently I retired in time. So, do tell.


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No matter how "complex" a piece of music may be, a composer should always strive for clarity in their notation as well as accuracy.

There are many places in your score that look very complex but are in fact incorrectly notated, thereby adding unnecessary complexity for the performer.

If you are interested, I could try to provide a critique for some bars, but no time now.

I look forward to comments from others here.

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Hey CharlesXX
Thank you for the feedback, yeah, I would really appreciate that critique.

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Hey Rowy
For your peace of mind, then yes, I do know about harmony, and no, this piece is not written in a specific key. The overall idea is expansion and contraction. The bass and top starts on the same B, and then moves away from each other in a 2:1 relationship on beat 1 of every bar.
The bass descends in semitones and the top ascends in whole notes.
The movement evolves until a B coincides on a downbeat when the two voices are far away from each other. After that, the journey goes back again until the two voices meet on the starting note.
It has never been my intention to make anyone feel dumb. I only strive to convey information to a musician, and if my communication is unclear then I feel dumb.

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Originally Posted by Kasperwithakay
Hey Rowy
For your peace of mind, then yes, I do know about harmony, and no, this piece is not written in a specific key. The overall idea is expansion and contraction. The bass and top starts on the same B, and then moves away from each other in a 2:1 relationship on beat 1 of every bar.
The bass descends in semitones and the top ascends in whole notes.
The movement evolves until a B coincides on a downbeat when the two voices are far away from each other. After that, the journey goes back again until the two voices meet on the starting note.
It has never been my intention to make anyone feel dumb. I only strive to convey information to a musician, and if my communication is unclear then I feel dumb.

With harmony I meant classical harmony (with the Roman numerals), not popular chord notation like G7 or C6. I also didn't mean a basic knowledge of harmony. Your score gives your level of knowledge away. CharlesXX noticed the same. Now, I could ask you why to want to impress musicians with complicated and artificial constructed music, but I'm more interested in what CharlesXX is going to say about your score.

Last edited by Rowy van Hest; 04/14/22 03:42 AM.

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Hello Everyone

As a new user and coincidental reader of this thread, i find myself oddly compelled to object to the language, the level of passive aggression and the sheer lack of human decency and empathy displayed by Rowy van Hest. As i find it rather boring to have ignorant critique such as Rowy’s mixed into what is only an inquiry into whether the above mentioned notation can be improved. I have listened to your compositions, Rowy, and i must say, you should refrain from presenting anyone with your opinion on the artistic value of a musical piece, if they have not asked for it. Your views on harmony in particular are receptive to criticism as they are stuck in retrospect to say the least and are not open to the possibility of someone having a bigger interest in the adventures beyond functional harmony and experimentalism than yourself. Please accept that there are people in this world who make other music than what your small ears can ingest. I myself probably would’ve made other compositional choices, but that does not grant me what appears to be “a high ground” from which to put other people’s work down.

Kind Regards

L’atrine Von Erfurt
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Sorry, L’atrine, I can’t agree with your post. Rowy is an old and honored member of this forum and, although she sometimes expresses strong opinions, I guess she’s entitled to that. She’s no troll whatsoever (not that I think she needs being defended, but I am also entitled to my own opinions)


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Originally Posted by mydp
Sorry, L’atrine, I can’t agree with your post. Rowy is an old and honored member of this forum and, although she sometimes expresses strong opinions, I guess she’s entitled to that. She’s no troll whatsoever (not that I think she needs being defended, but I am also entitled to my own opinions)

I dont think anyone here would agree with ‘Latrine, as Rowy has been very helpful to pianists at all levels, even posting some scores, free of charge, suitable to beginners. I haven’t seen any posts by L’atrine except this one. Since he is a composer, maybe he can post some helpful feedback re compositions posted here.


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I've spent more time than I wanted to looking at your score, trying to figure out what your intentions are.

Firstly, the 5/8 bars look ok mostly. 5/8 bars are usually seen as a 3 + 2, or 2 + 3, which is what you have done.

The 8/8 bars are more confusing.

Bare 1, going by the LH part, looks like a 4/4. Not sure why you think 8/8 is better. That makes the groupings in the RH very confusing. The last quaver and 2 semiquavers only should be grouped, forming the 3rd beat of a 4/4 bar. (If I could post an image I would. I've looked at the instructions on how to do this to no avail.)

Bar 3 looks like a 6/8 bar followed by a 2/8 bar. Nothing wrong with that. That's what is written. Making it an 8/8 bar is just not helpful. It could be rewritten as a 4/4 bar, but I'm not sure that is what is intended.

Bar 5, going by the RH looks like a 4/4 bar. Once again, writing 10 semiquavers all grouped together is just unclear and not very helpful. beat 1 dotted quaver-semiquaver, beat 2 quaver-2 semiquavers, beat 3 & 4 each 4 semiquavers, The LH would have to be adjusted accordingly.

Bars 7,9 and 11 seem to go back to 6/8 followed by 2/8 pattern.

I have drawn my conclusions from what you have written. The 8/8 bars could also have been written as 4/4 bars. But it is not clear exactly what you intended. But that is the point. It's just not very clear, and it should be.

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I'm also surprised by and do not agree with L'Atrine's comments. Rowy's comments here seem to me just honest opinion with info aimed at being helpful. And the original poster, Kasperwithakay seems to be OK and has engaged in further discussion with Rowy.

I believe I am probably more sensitive than the average person when it comes to criticism, therefore think I'd be one of the first to detect any air of nastiness, so I'm doubly surprised anyone would think this of Rowy's comments.

That being said, we all likely have - as they say - particular and highly personal "hot buttons" that, when pressed, cause us to react, because of things that have happened to us in the past. So it's understandable we do not all react the same to things said and done.

Another point I'm pondering, attempting to provide constructive critique of someone's work in a positive manner is probably not all that easy - it's all too easy to say or memorialize something in writing in a way you never meant it to be taken as. As has also happened to me here on PW.

To Rowy and Charles and other learned individuals who post here on PW offering ways we may improve our music: Thank you! I hope you continue to visit here.

Jeanne W


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Originally Posted by L'trine von Erfurt
Hello Everyone

As a new user and coincidental reader of this thread, i find myself oddly compelled to object to the language, the level of passive aggression and the sheer lack of human decency and empathy displayed by Rowy van Hest. As i find it rather boring to have ignorant critique such as Rowy’s mixed into what is only an inquiry into whether the above mentioned notation can be improved. I have listened to your compositions, Rowy, and i must say, you should refrain from presenting anyone with your opinion on the artistic value of a musical piece, if they have not asked for it. Your views on harmony in particular are receptive to criticism as they are stuck in retrospect to say the least and are not open to the possibility of someone having a bigger interest in the adventures beyond functional harmony and experimentalism than yourself. Please accept that there are people in this world who make other music than what your small ears can ingest. I myself probably would’ve made other compositional choices, but that does not grant me what appears to be “a high ground” from which to put other people’s work down.

Kind Regards

L’atrine Von Erfurt
Troll-slayer

Well now, aren't you the sensitive one. I've had students like you. They never stayed long.

About my small ears, well thank you. I wouldn't like big ears. About my style, yes, it's tonal. It hasn't always been. I started out, after I finished my study, with complicated contemporary music, but it didn't last. You could have known that, because it's in my bio on my site you so eagerly scanned, looking for something to throw at me.

But that's okay. You were angry, I get that. As a former teacher of Dutch students I'm used to a vigorous debate. Usually I just smile, but you can't see that.

Kasperwithakay could use some help. I was working my way up to a sound advice. I know some people can't take the Dutch way of full honesty, so I was being careful. And then you jumped in. Not knowing that I have had students with all kinds of styles and preferences, you decided I am some old-fashioned farmer girl from the south. I do live in the south of The Netherlands and we have a lot of livestock here, that's true. Although I don't know anyone who plays the banjo. But you're wrong.

And now get of my lawn, before I get my gun.


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Hi Rowy
He is now banned from the forum, so he won’t be back on your lawn

His PW moniker says a lot
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_latrine_disaster


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Originally Posted by CharlesXX
I've spent more time than I wanted to looking at your score, trying to figure out what your intentions are.

Firstly, the 5/8 bars look ok mostly. 5/8 bars are usually seen as a 3 + 2, or 2 + 3, which is what you have done.

The 8/8 bars are more confusing.

Bare 1, going by the LH part, looks like a 4/4. Not sure why you think 8/8 is better. That makes the groupings in the RH very confusing. The last quaver and 2 semiquavers only should be grouped, forming the 3rd beat of a 4/4 bar. (If I could post an image I would. I've looked at the instructions on how to do this to no avail.)

Bar 3 looks like a 6/8 bar followed by a 2/8 bar. Nothing wrong with that. That's what is written. Making it an 8/8 bar is just not helpful. It could be rewritten as a 4/4 bar, but I'm not sure that is what is intended.

Bar 5, going by the RH looks like a 4/4 bar. Once again, writing 10 semiquavers all grouped together is just unclear and not very helpful. beat 1 dotted quaver-semiquaver, beat 2 quaver-2 semiquavers, beat 3 & 4 each 4 semiquavers, The LH would have to be adjusted accordingly.

Bars 7,9 and 11 seem to go back to 6/8 followed by 2/8 pattern.

I have drawn my conclusions from what you have written. The 8/8 bars could also have been written as 4/4 bars. But it is not clear exactly what you intended. But that is the point. It's just not very clear, and it should be.

Hey Charles
First of all, thank you so much for taking time out to reply and go through my score, that means a lot to me!
I’m glad to hear that the 5/8 bars are mostly fine.
The reason why I chose 8/8 was because I thought it would be easier for players to have both type of bars in eights, rather than alternating bars of 5/8 and 4/4.
I also wanted the two bar groups to add up to 13, but that is irrelevant if it is clearer to write the 8/8 bars as 4/4.
As I wrote in a reply to Rowy then the idea was a movement departing from, and returning to, a shared B note.
I will adjust the piece and do those bars in 4/4.
Best regards
Kasper

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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
Originally Posted by Kasperwithakay
Hey Rowy
For your peace of mind, then yes, I do know about harmony, and no, this piece is not written in a specific key. The overall idea is expansion and contraction. The bass and top starts on the same B, and then moves away from each other in a 2:1 relationship on beat 1 of every bar.
The bass descends in semitones and the top ascends in whole notes.
The movement evolves until a B coincides on a downbeat when the two voices are far away from each other. After that, the journey goes back again until the two voices meet on the starting note.
It has never been my intention to make anyone feel dumb. I only strive to convey information to a musician, and if my communication is unclear then I feel dumb.

With harmony I meant classical harmony (with the Roman numerals), not popular chord notation like G7 or C6. I also didn't mean a basic knowledge of harmony. Your score gives your level of knowledge away. CharlesXX noticed the same. Now, I could ask you why to want to impress musicians with complicated and artificial constructed music, but I'm more interested in what CharlesXX is going to say about your score.

Yes, I also know about classical harmony and Roman numerals smile
I never said that I try to impress anybody with my idea, I just answered your question. Charles gave me some excellent feedback on my score, and I'm thankful for that. Now, if we talk about my music being artificial or constructed, then yes. However, I would argue what music isn't artificial or constructed?

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Originally Posted by Kasperwithakay
Yes, I also know about classical harmony and Roman numerals smile
I never said that I try to impress anybody with my idea, I just answered your question. Charles gave me some excellent feedback on my score, and I'm thankful for that. Now, if we talk about my music being artificial or constructed, then yes. However, I would argue what music isn't artificial or constructed?

Maybe I should explain. I've noticed that you've made, and probably still make, popular dance music (I don't know the modern term). Anyway, it is music that is not complicated, even quite superficial. I have no problem with that. I know my daughter likes that kind of music, as most young people do.

Usually a composer who writes music like your latest piece has gone through a certain development. He begins in a classical style and gradually the music becomes more difficult. I have never met a composer who made a giant leap, as you did. To me, that's interesting. And puzzling.

Perhaps you have written this kind of music before. Or you just decided to take a completely different path. It's still a mystery to me. And it makes me curious about your next composition.


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