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Well I decided on the Shigeru SK7. Perhaps in the future I might contemplate upgrading to a Shigeru SK-EX but for now I'm in love with the SK7. I am building a piano room so I am now digging into the science of creating a room with serious isolation(for playing at 2am to my heart's content without waking up the wife and neighbors), and also one that is acoustically pleasing with enough sparkle in the room to make it extremely enjoyable. Most likely I will make it large enough such that if I ever elect to upgrade to the 9' SK-EX it will be able to accommodate. I have a pretty blank slate, although it will be over a new garage which will be attached to the house to some degree. I have perused the info on Piano Buyers that speaks to the science of making a grand piano sound great in your room. Lots of details with specific room size, wall and ceiling ratios, techniques for diffusion, absorption, reflection, etc. Some materials for isolation, like carbon fiber boards that go in between wall studs look pretty fancy, but I imagine also pretty pricey. Have read several blogs here regarding setting up your piano room, noise reduction ideas, room optimization etc. Wonder if anybody has had any success recruiting some acoustic experts in consultation - and ballpark how much are we talking price-wise. Certainly want to do this right after making this journey happen, but wanted to see what experiences regarding these consultations and acoustic advice is out there.

Thanks.


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I suggest you call the Seattle Symphony and get the name of the firm that did the acoustical engineering for Benaroya Hall. I can't remember the firm name but the person I talked to most from the firm was Mark Reddington.


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When it comes to acoustics, I always think in terms of movie theatres for obvious reasons. smile

You might want to call Moving Image Technologies in Fountain Valley, CA. If you're in Washington then they aren't all that far away and those guys do travel around.

They do design consultation for theatre auditoriums and I don't see how a piano room would be all that much different in terms of sound engineering.


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Isolation is different from acoystic treatment. In a room the only way to completely isolate is to build a box within the room. Otherwise the best you can do is to reduce the volume. After that you can add the acoustic panels to remove unwanted frequencies and tame the reverb.


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Check out this site too --- LINK

When considering sound-proofing ---- may also need to consider temperature control/cooling etc, eg. if there's aircon vents, then any need to do something with them too etc.

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There’s a wealth of information on Youtube, but like most things you have to sift and analyse it a fair bit to see how applicable it is to your own situation.

There is a lot you can do with relatively simple & cheap materials such as heavy drywall sheets. If someone is promoting using carbon fibre to you that is a bit of a red flag. Carbon fibre is just crazy expensive and doesn’t have any better acoustic properties than many much cheaper materials.

Unfortunately I think that if you are finding materials to be expensive, the cost of hiring professional consultants is going to be a shock.


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I don’t have any words of wisdom on the room acoustics, but CONGRATULATIONS 🎊🎉🎈 on buying the SK7! Will you have it delivered before the room is ready, or are you going to wait until the room has been completed?

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Don't forget about the windows! They will need to be double or triple insulated probably. UGH


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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
Don't forget about the windows! They will need to be double or triple insulated probably. UGH

True. Fort Knox!

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My 2 cents!

The issue may be that putting sound insulation ON the inside walls will deaden the sound of the piano, YES, but it will change/deaden the sound FOR the pianist's ear as well. The full sound needs to BOUNCE off the walls on the inside but not go PAST the walls!

I think you may need to consider doing the sound block in between the walls and the outside part of the structure. You want to deaden the sound 'OUTSIDE' the room but not 'INSIDE' the room. I would definitely explain that to the builder, otherwise they will just try to deaden the sound from the inside.

Does that all make sense, I hope?

CONGRATULATIONS on the FABULOUS Choice!

brdwyguy

Last edited by brdwyguy; 04/16/22 08:23 AM.

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That's right. The sound blocking is one task. And the other task will involve setting up acoustic performance for the inside as well.

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Drywall should be hung on resilient metal furring.

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It is very difficult to isolate well a room with a piano. I occasionally rent rooms when i am travelling and there is one place where there are 2 rooms fully close separated by an empty space of 12 feet. My room had even a double door and the other room had also a door. And yet i could hear the other piano rather well. And he was not even playing anything loud.

I would advise you get counselling by an expert. Otherwise you may invest into a lot of work and cost and not the get the results you are expecting. And this only for isolation. Acoustic is yet another issue.


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Originally Posted by dbauer1080
Well I decided on the Shigeru SK7. Perhaps in the future I might contemplate upgrading to a Shigeru SK-EX but for now I'm in love with the SK7. I am building a piano room so I am now digging into the science of creating a room with serious isolation(for playing at 2am to my heart's content without waking up the wife and neighbors), and also one that is acoustically pleasing with enough sparkle in the room to make it extremely enjoyable. Most likely I will make it large enough such that if I ever elect to upgrade to the 9' SK-EX it will be able to accommodate. I have a pretty blank slate, although it will be over a new garage which will be attached to the house to some degree. I have perused the info on Piano Buyers that speaks to the science of making a grand piano sound great in your room. Lots of details with specific room size, wall and ceiling ratios, techniques for diffusion, absorption, reflection, etc. Some materials for isolation, like carbon fiber boards that go in between wall studs look pretty fancy, but I imagine also pretty pricey. Have read several blogs here regarding setting up your piano room, noise reduction ideas, room optimization etc. Wonder if anybody has had any success recruiting some acoustic experts in consultation - and ballpark how much are we talking price-wise. Certainly want to do this right after making this journey happen, but wanted to see what experiences regarding these consultations and acoustic advice is out there

Thanks.


Acoustic isolation is really difficult to achieve. Your goal of being able to play at 2:00 AM without waking anyone seems pretty unrealistic unless your wife is a heavy sleeper. Think in terms of sound reduction, not isolation, and you'll be on a better track. Many, many years ago, I worked at a radio station, and even their studios were not completely isolated. The trouble with pianos is that they produce lots of volume, and the volume is being made by a very heavy and large structure that is sitting on a floor. There will be lots of sounds coupled from the piano into the floor. If the floor is a typical wooden floor, you won't be able to keep it from vibrating. Putting some kind of sound absorbing devices under the legs will help, but won't stop all the sound. The walls and ceiling will vibrate. Using a double-wall system will help. This type of wall uses staggered studs where very other stud is adjacent to the opposite side of the wall. Filling the wall with rock wool insulation will help. Every joint lets sound through--think doors. The doors will need some kind of weatherstripping, if you forgive the term. The door itself will vibrate. You can use a heavy solid-core door, but don't expect perfection.

For 2:00 AM playing you might consider a digital piano played through headphones.

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Well, I do know a few folks who are professional players and teachers that live in town houses and have one of these: https://shop.wengercorp.com/education/soundlokr-sound-isolation-rooms.html

They are available for residential use as well as institutional use.

Used them extensively when I was at YSM years ago when the school converted what had been a large space in the ROTC building into practice space. Can't remember now how many units there were, but most had, at least, a Steinway "L" in them. There were a few larger ones for rehearsing chamber groups.

Even with these units there is SOME sound that escapes, but really not very much.


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Wow Seeker - those are really cool!


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Originally Posted by Seeker
Well, I do know a few folks who are professional players and teachers that live in town houses and have one of these: https://shop.wengercorp.com/education/soundlokr-sound-isolation-rooms.html

Nice! That's a 'lesser' version of the 'cone of silence'.

Some problems to solve could be ----- ventilation/temperature control, and gas exchange (oxygen, co2 etc), and humidity control. And a good idea to have personal safety devices, such as being able to get out if something gets 'stuck'.

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Originally Posted by SouthPark
Some problems to solve could be ----- ventilation/temperature control, and gas exchange (oxygen, co2 etc), and humidity control. And a good idea to have personal safety devices, such as being able to get out if something gets 'stuck'.
The product description says it includes its own air exchange system that does a complete exchange every 1-1.5 minutes. The assumption is you erect it in a facility that already has a standard HVAC system and the isolation room will exchange that air at whatever temp/humidity the HVAC system is set to. They say there is more engineering involved if you want to hook it up to the standard HVAC system, no surprise there.

I'd be curious to see how much these cost. Probably a cheaper/better solution than trying to engineer soundproofing into a traditional residential structure.


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Originally Posted by dbauer1080
Well I decided on the Shigeru SK7. Perhaps in the future I might contemplate upgrading to a Shigeru SK-EX but for now I'm in love with the SK7.

Huge congrats!! The SKs are really special. And the Kawai MPA visit is such a unique perk smile


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Thanks everyone.

The good news is that I live on 9 acres, and my closest neighbor is 500 feet away. My wife is a pretty sound sleeper, although my youngest daughter still at home is not. So I still would like to deaden the sound outside as much as possible, yet keep the inside vibrant. Since I am building this structure from scratch, I can certainly build a dual-walled room, with sound absorbing material in between. I have looked at various materials - I misspoke it is not carbon fiber, but rock wool type of material. Anyway, I was hoping there were consultants around that could guide me in building this room such that I am maximizing sound isolation for the outside, and sound maximization for the inside. I would again envision a "room" created by an inside set of walls and ceiling, and an outer sound isolating wall, with maximized decoupling and sound absorption. The inside wall would have whatever it takes to allow the piano's full sound to be realized and optimized. Maybe I'm being a tad too simplistic, but that's the visual I'm seeing. By the way, I have been playing with digital pianos and headphones for 30 plus years.... fact way too much. A digital piano is a completely different instrument than an acoustic piano. Technique suffers, dynamics and touch are drastically different, and I have found myself having to practice on an acoustic piano before certain gigs in order to re-acquaint myself to the acoustic piano.

Well 4 kids later, grown up and now out of the house, I finally decided I could take the plunge and get a piano I can't take myself off of - now after my search, the Shigeru SK-7. Can't wait for the day when I can play the grand piano whenever and however I would like. Have never experienced that since my days at Berklee. Will happen after this room is built(I am waiting to have the piano delivered until the room is complete). So I really would like to take the extra effort to build this just right for isolation outside and vibrancy inside. That's why I am looking into the prospect and cost of hiring some pros that can guide me through the entire building process- involved right from the start. The room revolves strictly around the piano and its sound, with really no other motivation molding it's end result - except having other performers or listeners in the room. Man I can't wait to see what the possibilities are.......what pianist doesn't dream of their own little ideal playing world??!!........


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