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Hi there,

I'm an intermediate player and I've been working on my scales. A while ago, on the advice of Hanon and the murmurings of various other pianists (I haven't had lessons in a few years), I was practicing my scales with "high fingers". After some days of doing this, my right-hand was unable to play ascending scales at full velocity.

What is happening, is that my third finger impulsively lifts up when it is time for it to press into the key. It wants to straighten out just after my second finger plays, and when my third finger should be pressing its key, it wants to flick upwards.

I can only ascend in the right-hand at maybe 60% or 70% of full velocity.

I've tried various things for a few weeks to correct this, but nothing is helping.

Any ideas?

Here is a short video of what is happening (first in normal speed, then in slow-motion) (the awkward hand position after descending is due to my trying to prevent my third finger from flicking up):

The "advice" given by Monsieur Hanon has long since been debunked as being almost a sure way to cause tension in playing, and tension can lead to discomfort and, eventually, damage. Just the opposite should be the rule. Keep the hand relaxed with fingers gently resting on the keys. Play as slowly as you need to without developing tension. You may need to "learn" to relax as it may, to some small degree, seem counterproductive. Once you are able to play scales completely relaxed at a slow tempo then you can gradually increase your tempo.

Watch a professional pianist play Mozart scale passages, for example, and you'll see fluid relaxed movement in the hand and fingers.

There should never be tension, and I can't think of an instance when playing scales would require the use of "high fingers." Ouch!

Regards,

What Bruce said.

+1.

I was taught to play scales firstly lifting fingers high, too. This exercise is often misunderstood. There must be no tension in the hand when doing it, fingers must not be lifted up all the time. Only a finger which is going to play the next note raises up high and then goes down quickly. The adjacent fingers may go up as "helpers", too, but only a little bit and only in a relaxed manner. This whole thing is intended to teach to play "from the knuckles" and train intrinsic hand muscles.

I'd recommend you to work with a teacher for some time. I think there are issues with how you play that better be addressed in person.

So are you saying that before Hanon, you were able to play scales at full velocity (btw what is full velocity for you ?) And after A few days of Hanon, you lost that ability ?

My suggestion would be to start back with one octave scale and practice your mouvement from slow first then over time faster until you get it smooth and controlled. There is no point trying to play 4 octaves if you cant get 1 right.

That is correct. Full velocity for me (before this started happening) was sixteenth notes at about 120bpm.

I have tried playing slowly, very slowly to try and regain some control, but it doesn't seem to help. As soon as I up the speed to a certain degree, my third finger sticks out again.

My right-hand feels very strange when attempting to ascend at faster velocities now. The muscles are being used in a very uncoordinated way ever since this started happening. I know you're not supposed to pay too much attention to "how it feels", but it's just something I've noticed.

My brain has somehow been programmed to lift my third finger when it needs to press into the key only at faster velocities. Slow play doesn't seem to have any positive effect on faster play (in this scenario).

Honestly I think there is a tremendous amount of tension in your hand. The look of your 5th and 4th fingers on the last second of the recording makes me shudder. I'd stop playing it and go to a good teacher ASAP before you develop musician's dystonia.

It is absolutely necessary to pay attention to how it feels.

I think with scales you need to practice getting good technique at a slow speed. To increase the speed then practice the thumb over movement and thumb under movement. You also need to pivot correctly. I was taught to practice them separately with a little exercise (my teacher didnt use hanon but you can make exercises or use them to learn a technique etc.)

Once you have the scale solid then you can also practice in rhythms to build the speed. When you play a scale, very quickly, you also need to make all the notes sound the same. My teacher says avoid 'noisey thumbs' in a rapid ascending passage. I'm not sure about this one tbh. also I found more classical era pieces help as you have often lots of scale fragments at speed. Good luck

...to not play Hanon ever again ! :P

Yes for sure.



Now looking at the video, your hand mouvement is really not fluid and rigid, your wrist is rather blocked and you seem to have finger independance issues anyway. I dont know if Hanon ruined something, but I would guess it may have just emphasized issues you already had to some extent.

I think with the help of a teacher, you should do some exercices to develop better control over your fingers in general, increase independance, but also smooth out your mouvement, which is not correct. And you should start back with one or two octave scale and practice your mouvement slow and controlled until you reach the point where it breaks. Getting to play the scale smoothly takes time anyway so dont think you will get there instantly or that there is some kind of magic solution. All that is having the proper relaxed fluid mouvement, good finger control, and a lot of practice.