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Joined: Oct 2013
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Salut wink

Bechstein Digital Grand is one of favorite among VSLs and Garritan CFX. I don’t regret my purchase even if the full version price is higher than most of the others (249€). I have VILabs Ravenscroft, but I find it too peculiar for my taste. I have purchased Bechstein Digital Grand because I was felt in love with the EWQL Bechstein tone…. But its huge velocity layer gaps were too irritating. Then an other Bechstein was welcomed.

With a i5-3330, the polyphony must be limited at 130-150 voices… knowing that a single note takes 4 or 5 voices. Then the actual polyphony is really around 30 notes. My i5-12600 is quite more powerful then it is not an issue anymore. A visit to https://www.cpubenchmark.net/ is recommended, then you can compare you CPU index with mine (4080 for a i5-3330).

The reason why Bechstein Digital Grand is so hungry deals with the mixing for each note between 4 or 5 samples (Basic tone, partial tones, sound body, "softness" , and optionally aura).

You can take the Bechstein Digital Grand Essentials to test it, and upgrade afterward if it please to you and want more tweaking or velocity layers. The upgrade price is the difference between the two versions. (But Essentials has no mixing between 4-5 samples then won’t probe your CPU).

One interesting feature of Bechstein Digital Grand Essentials and Full is the mellow/bright knob. An easy tweak to adjust the tone to your taste. Mine is more toward mellow but your taste may be different.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/22/22 05:34 PM.

http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha N1X, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
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I could add that VILabs has also a Bechstein (the 3 pianos bundle)… but some samples have some click inside it (an Audacity spectrogram shows a big red dot above the sound). The issue is acknowledged by the support (a « quick chiff » they said), they tell me they will fix it but they must be still too busy with the (2015) Winter NAMM. Perhaps my AKG702 headphones are too detailed for this virtual piano.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/22/22 05:47 PM.

http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha N1X, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
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Originally Posted by Chummy
I'm a sucker for YAMAHA DX7 sounds so probably the recent OPS7 I love those juicy FM tones :-)

I guess you mean Plogue's OPS7 plugin.

My brother (who has a lot of synthesizer experience, while I have next to none) recently started using it and is over the 🌙 with it.

Cheers and happy oscillations,

HZ

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Originally Posted by Chummy
I'm a sucker for YAMAHA DX7 sounds so probably the recent OPS7 I love those juicy FM tones :-)

My brother (who has a lot of synthesizer experience, while I have next to none) recently started using it and is over the 🌙 with it.

For a minute there, HZ, I was wondering why your brother was over a banana ;-)

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Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
For a minute there, HZ, I was wondering why your brother was over a banana ;-)

😄 No, I am bananas, he is more of the expert 😄

Cheers and happy fruitcakes,

HZ

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Trying to sort from the most appreciated instrument to the less

The most used VST are VSL (expensive but worth their price), Bechstein Digital Grand (Very nice too, I like the mellow/bright knob which permits me to voice it like I want), Garritan CFX (very close to VSL Synchron CFX… it was not very wise to purchase both. But I bought VSL afterward and like to switch piano - between other VSL Synchron - with a single mouse click !).

I also like Galaxy instruments and especially Vintage D which has some charm.

Ivory are also well appreciated

I have plenty of others, but I admit to use them less.
[quote=Frédéric L]
Hi Frédéric could you elaborate some more about the Bechstein vst ? I have a super fast system and recently swapped my processor , motherboard and cooling to handle the latest AMD Ryzen chip.
I am most intrigued about it’s character. I like my three VSL piano’s and top notch playability, but they all sound like the modern approach of a concert grand. I am looking for a superb seventies concert grand. A golden era in many recordings. They have body and warmth that the VSL piano’s don’t really have. Maybe this Bechstein has ?

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Originally Posted by pianistje
... They have body and warmth that the VSL piano’s don’t really have. Maybe this Bechstein has ?

Hello,

From that, @pianistje, I would say we're after the same qualites, same taste, in a piano library. Thus far, I have not really found any Grand library that does the job the way I'd like it to.

So, curious as well!

Cheers and happy (re)search,

HZ

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Originally Posted by pianistje
... They have body and warmth that the VSL piano’s don’t really have. Maybe this Bechstein has ?

Hello,

From that, @pianistje, I would say we're after the same qualites, same taste, in a piano library. Thus far, I have not really found any Grand library that does the job the way I'd like it to.

So, curious as well!

Cheers and happy (re)search,

HZ
Thanks ! And nice to hear i’m not alone in my specific requests ! wink

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Originally Posted by Chummy
I'm a sucker for YAMAHA DX7 sounds so probably the recent OPS7 I love those juicy FM tones :-)

I guess you mean Plogue's OPS7 plugin.

My brother (who has a lot of synthesizer experience, while I have next to none) recently started using it and is over the 🌙 with it.

Cheers and happy oscillations,

HZ


Wow... I had a real DX7II and sold it, and since then I was using a free DEXED emulation which to my ears was not as good. I was using some Japanese Jazz Fusion sounds and they sounded awful on the DEXED while great on the DX7, the OPS7 is very promising and I'm tempted to buy it. Can your brother or you share any wisdom as to how he uses it when he wants to take it outside to play? I don't think it runs on tablets (only laptops which I'm reluctant to bring) ... or does he only use it in the studio?
I don't know what type of semi weighted "synth" MIDI keyboard controller is good these days to control such VSTs... Since I sold the DX7 with aftertouch and a bit of weight on them keys it seems MIDI keybeds nowadays are more focused on having 20 knobs and 16 drum pads rather than a good action which is a shame... IDK lol.. I wish the CT-S1 had aftertouch lol

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Originally Posted by Chummy
I'm a sucker for YAMAHA DX7 sounds so probably the recent OPS7 I love those juicy FM tones :-)

I guess you mean Plogue's OPS7 plugin.

My brother (who has a lot of synthesizer experience, while I have next to none) recently started using it and is over the 🌙 with it.

Cheers and happy oscillations,

HZ
I bought it the other week. And it’s a perfect DX7 emulation. However i am used to modern allrounder synths like Dune3 and those sound much better, more hifi, vastly superior effects and straight forward sound sculpting. It wasn’t very expensive but i have no use for FM synthesis. Although it gave me a very satisfying nostalgic evening
grin

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Originally Posted by Chummy
I don't know what type of semi weighted "synth" MIDI keyboard controller is good these days to control such VSTs... Since I sold the DX7 with aftertouch and a bit of weight on them keys it seems MIDI keybeds nowadays are more focused on having 20 knobs and 16 drum pads rather than a good action which is a shame... IDK lol.. I wish the CT-S1 had aftertouch lol

Recently I bought the Nektar Impact GXP88 for Synth sounds ... Give it a try- I like the keys for synth stuff

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Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Originally Posted by Chummy
I don't know what type of semi weighted "synth" MIDI keyboard controller is good these days to control such VSTs... Since I sold the DX7 with aftertouch and a bit of weight on them keys it seems MIDI keybeds nowadays are more focused on having 20 knobs and 16 drum pads rather than a good action which is a shame... IDK lol.. I wish the CT-S1 had aftertouch lol

Recently I bought the Nektar Impact GXP88 for Synth sounds ... Give it a try- I like the keys for synth stuff

thank but I'm looking for 61 with velocity + aftertouch, something that doesn't feel cheap plastic and has a bit of heft, basically a "DX7" feel.. with 2 wheels. And I don't need gazillion sliders/knobs/pads/screens and colorful lights/leds as I find myself not using them, just makes the keyboard look ugly and the lights distracting IMO I like the sleek look of a keys with 2 wheels on the side and that's it. That being said I won't say no to a suggestion just because it has a couple of sliders etc..
I've begun some researched and noted that some of the cheaper MIDI keyboards from Native Instruments and similar companies have simpler interface but no Aftertouch frown

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Originally Posted by Chummy
Can your brother or you share any wisdom as to how he uses it when he wants to take it outside to play?

Hello,

He doesn't. It runs on his PC at his music desk.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Originally Posted by Chummy
Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Originally Posted by Chummy
I don't know what type of semi weighted "synth" MIDI keyboard controller is good these days to control such VSTs... Since I sold the DX7 with aftertouch and a bit of weight on them keys it seems MIDI keybeds nowadays are more focused on having 20 knobs and 16 drum pads rather than a good action which is a shame... IDK lol.. I wish the CT-S1 had aftertouch lol

Recently I bought the Nektar Impact GXP88 for Synth sounds ... Give it a try- I like the keys for synth stuff

thank but I'm looking for 61 with velocity + aftertouch, something that doesn't feel cheap plastic and has a bit of heft, basically a "DX7" feel.. with 2 wheels. And I don't need gazillion sliders/knobs/pads/screens and colorful lights/leds as I find myself not using them, just makes the keyboard look ugly and the lights distracting IMO I like the sleek look of a keys with 2 wheels on the side and that's it. That being said I won't say no to a suggestion just because it has a couple of sliders etc..
I've begun some researched and noted that some of the cheaper MIDI keyboards from Native Instruments and similar companies have simpler interface but no Aftertouch frown

and what about the Nektar Impact GXP61 ? Its with aftertouch...

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Originally Posted by napilopez
Noire is also very good, but requires a lot of tweaking to sound and play natural imo.

Hello,

Maybe we need to discuss this in a separate thread, but I recently purchased Noire, there is a lot to like about it, and yes, it does require a lot of tweaking. Starting it up with the default 'Basic Pure' I initially thought Noire was an immediate write-off. I have it quite a bit better now, but have a feeling I'm not fully at 'natural' yet.

Would you care to share how you have set up your most 'natural' Noire?

Cheers and thanks!

HZ

Noire does require a fair amount of tweaking to get the most out of it. I was also somewhat underwhelmed at first, but it quickly become one of my absolute favorites.

Most of the factory presets seem geared towards highlighting more extreme and/or artificial effects, but below are the settings I've settled on for general playing.

I don't know if this would qualify as the most "natural" sound, and everyone's taste is different, but for me this has a good balance of clarity, depth and presence.

FWIW, I play mostly solo classical (Mozart, Bach, etc.) and pretty much exclusively w/ headphones (Grado SR125).

Main Knobs
Color: +42%
Tonal shift: +8%
Dynamic: 0
Reverb: Off
Delay: Off

Anatomy
Release Samples: On -0.6 dB
Resonance: -11.2 dB
Overtones: Off
Attack: 0.00 ms

Noises
Pedal: On -36.5 dB
Mechanical: On -23.4 dB
Felt: Off

Tone
Tonal Depth: Off
Low Keys: 20%
Sub: Off

Velocity (manually customize via KSP - Preset - Factory - Transform - Change velocity)
Repedal: On
Halfpedal: On

Effects:
EQ: On
Presence: +6.2dB
Bite: +6.0dB
Bass: -3.3 dB

Transient: Off
Compressor: Off
Stereo Image: Off
Style: Off
Noises: Off
Pianist: Off

Particles Engine: All off

Reverb: Off
Replika Delay: Off

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Hello,

@jdg78, Thank you for your time and effort in sharing these settings!

Over this weekend, I spent some time redoing Noire from scratch, and I see quite a few -- though not all -- similarities with what you've done. And indeed I have a custom velocity curve in place, which is essential.

I'll try your choices next time I can put some attention towards tweaking Noire.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Just tested your settings and it is indeed an improvement. I don't like deviating too much from the default settings, so I had given up on Noire. Too muffled. Turns out that if you crank up color it improves dramatically without becoming artificial. Have to adjust the eq to my headphones, but it is a workable VST at the moment.

Thanks for giving me some hope on this muffled piano.

Last edited by vagfilm; 01/31/22 12:59 PM.
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Hello,

@vagfilm, I was already hoping you'd see this.

This afternoon, I further crystallized my Noire settings, and if they hold well over the next day or two, I'll try to remember to list them here as well.

Cheers and happy VSTi resurrections,

HZ

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

@jdg78, Thank you for your time and effort in sharing these settings!

Over this weekend, I spent some time redoing Noire from scratch, and I see quite a few -- though not all -- similarities with what you've done. And indeed I have a custom velocity curve in place, which is essential.

I'll try your choices next time I can put some attention towards tweaking Noire.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ
How do you set a custom velocity curve in Noire? I never noticed that setting

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@jdg78, Those settings are really good.

I am sold.

You got anything else to send our way. I am terrible getting VST's to sound good.

I am not ashamed for asking even if I should not.

Grandeur, Garritan, Bechstein Digital, Pianoteq,

Ron


Ron

BÖSENDORFER 280VC, Garritan Abbey Road Studios CFX, Auddict_Dorian_Marko, Ravenscroft275, Modern U, Noire, Bechstein Digital,The Grandeur, Lounge Lizard EP-4, 300_Grand_Compact, Pianoteq, Synthology_American_D
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