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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Yeah, Steinway uses aggressive marketing, which is fine, but there is a certain arrogance about the company that I find distasteful. Also, although Steinway's smaller grands, the O and M as examples, can be very good pianos, on a performance per dollar basis, they don't fare nearly so well.
What do you mean by they don't fare nearly so well?

Although I do find the M to be typically underwhelming (I can think of one rebuilt example I've played in the last decade that was nice) and not a particularly great design, I actually like the current-production model O quite a bit, for a piano of that size. I'm actually having trouble thinking of too many pianos I like better than the O at that size, off the top of my head.

I've actually performed Rachmaninoff 2 on an O and it worked surprisingly well. I haven't played the New York O, but I know the Hamburg O is a very good piano. That said, it's a very expensive piano for the size, but all German pianos are expensive.


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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
Steinway is not just for the 'rich'. It's priorities. Buy less new cars over 20 years, take fewer vacations and don't buy new iPhones every year and voila, you too can afford a Steinway. If, of course, that's your life priority.

I rarely take flights, and neither does my family the only times we gone to another country for a week was with family friends and that was like 6 or 7 years ago to Italy (I can't remember the location names of the few places we have been, sorry)

Apple is a corporation I boycott, I hate their products, I have a Samsung phone and it lasts for like 7 years so I don't buy a new phone every year, I am quite frugal with my money, I don't waste it on random junk, so no problem there.

Oh and I don't have a car, public transport has served me well so far and If I need to, I could call Uber or whatever taxi service if I have to.

Last edited by LavaWave; 01/14/22 11:54 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jethro, edited
No one will ever hear of a concert grand used as an oversized coffee table.

We will never hear the end of it once a member buys such a Steinway, never been played, at a knock down price

Last edited by Withindale; 01/14/22 12:26 PM.

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Until Steinway turns away "worthy" buyers, all this haughty hand wringing and angst is really off base.


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Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
I've actually performed Rachmaninoff 2 on an O and it worked surprisingly well. I haven't played the New York O, but I know the Hamburg O is a very good piano. That said, it's a very expensive piano for the size, but all German pianos are expensive.

Quite true, I have played a couple of Hamburg Os and they were pretty fantastic. Most of the Hamburg pianos I've seen over here are from the 1980s, during the low points in the NY production quality. Maybe a handful from the 1970s. And then some new ones.


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Some of those 80s Hamburgs were beautiful, the 70s ones less so, although that could be more to do with them being beaten up rather than their original quality


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Yeah, Steinway uses aggressive marketing, which is fine, but there is a certain arrogance about the company that I find distasteful. Also, although Steinway's smaller grands, the O and M as examples, can be very good pianos, on a performance per dollar basis, they don't fare nearly so well.
What do you mean by they don't fare nearly so well?

Consider the cost of an O. Then, consider what other pianos you could buy for that money.

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Another thing to consider, Steinway doesn't ship to Malta, the only big names I've seen on the 2 well known instrument websites from my country are Yamaha and Bosendorfer, there is no Steinway.

One of Malta's music store's website states 2 Zimmerman baby grands, one is a Zimmerman Z 160 and a smaller one and a ritmuller baby grand, I haven't heard of any of those manufacturers personally, while another site features several Yamaha's of several different sizes (both upright and baby/normal grand) and a few Bosendorfers that come in baby/normal grands.

As far as I am aware my country's options are limited on getting an actual grand, thankfully upright pianos are quite plentiful here but those who want a Steinway or another model besides those aforementioned has to pay for shipping fees for buying it from a far away country, which also means the Piano would need major tuning as soon as it gets home compared as to buy it from a store in your own home country, I assume the storekeepers keep their products well tuned, when you order by shipping from a far distance I think that you will take a gamble, it might not be worth it.

Last edited by LavaWave; 01/14/22 05:50 PM.
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This sounds like the green eyed monster eating sour grapes to me. Do you think Steinway is obligated to seek out everyone who can play "better" than Tiffany Poon and offer them a piano? Or special access? Who decides who's "better"? Or more "deserving"?[/quote]

I have to agree with the above! It also seems to be about guilt or not being a good enough pianist or owning a piano purely as furniture.( nothing wrong with that of course! 🙄 ) Just glad no one is picking on people who own expensive uprights.( should I make myself sick over owning one?)

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Originally Posted by Roy123
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Yeah, Steinway uses aggressive marketing, which is fine, but there is a certain arrogance about the company that I find distasteful. Also, although Steinway's smaller grands, the O and M as examples, can be very good pianos, on a performance per dollar basis, they don't fare nearly so well.
What do you mean by they don't fare nearly so well?

Consider the cost of an O. Then, consider what other pianos you could buy for that money.
I agree.(My eyes skipped over the "performance per dollar" part when I read your post).

And a Steinway S does even worse on that basis. The O is around 95K and the S around 75K and one can buy 7'+ models of many great pianos for that price or even far less.

I think one should really be in love with the Steinway sound to spend that much on their less than 6' models.

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Originally Posted by Roy123
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Yeah, Steinway uses aggressive marketing, which is fine, but there is a certain arrogance about the company that I find distasteful. Also, although Steinway's smaller grands, the O and M as examples, can be very good pianos, on a performance per dollar basis, they don't fare nearly so well.
What do you mean by they don't fare nearly so well?

Consider the cost of an O. Then, consider what other pianos you could buy for that money.
I agree.(My eyes skipped over the "performance per dollar" part when I read your post).

And a Steinway S does even worse on that basis. The O is around 95K and the S around 75K and one can buy 7'+ models of many great pianos for that price or even far less.

I think one should really be in love with the Steinway sound to spend that much on their less than 6' models.
Originally Posted by Jethro
To be clear it doesn’t bother me at all that people buy expensive objects to enjoy them. Just the thought that some of these objects as a result may never fulfill their purpose. No one will ever hear for example that one of a kind concert grand because it now serves a new purpose as an oversized coffee table.
But if the person who bought the expensive grand for furniture didn't buy it, no one would that grand because it would go unsold or never have been manufactured. The person who bought it as furniture is not taking the piano away from someone who might play it.

It's also possible that the expensive piano has a player system so one can hear it even though the buyer doesn't play.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
[quote=Roy123]Yeah, Steinway uses aggressive marketing, which is fine, but there is a certain arrogance about the company that I find distasteful. Also, although Steinway's smaller grands, the O and M as examples, can be very good pianos, on a performance per dollar basis, they don't fare nearly so well.
What do you mean by they don't fare nearly so well?

Consider the cost of an O. Then, consider what other pianos you could buy for that money.
I agree.(My eyes skipped over the "performance per dollar" part when I read your post).

And a Steinway S does even worse on that basis. The O is around 95K and the S around 75K and one can buy 7'+ models of many great pianos for that price or even far less.

I think one should really be in love with the Steinway sound to spend that much on their less than 6' models.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/14/22 06:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by Pianist685
Isn't it elitist already to play classical music on a piano?

No!!! The widely-held myth that classical music and opera is "elitist" is doing a lot of damage. Please let us not encourage it!
It all depends on the society/country whether it's elitist or not.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Roy123
Yeah, Steinway uses aggressive marketing, which is fine, but there is a certain arrogance about the company that I find distasteful. Also, although Steinway's smaller grands, the O and M as examples, can be very good pianos, on a performance per dollar basis, they don't fare nearly so well.
What do you mean by they don't fare nearly so well?

Consider the cost of an O. Then, consider what other pianos you could buy for that money.
I agree.(My eyes skipped over the "performance per dollar" part when I read your post).

And a Steinway S does even worse on that basis. The O is around 95K and the S around 75K and one can buy 7'+ models of many great pianos for that price or even far less.

I think one should really be in love with the Steinway sound to spend that much on their less than 6' models.

Personally I think the S is the worst value in the world of pianos. It really doesn't sound that great due to its length, and $75k can buy a lot of piano when considering other manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by tre corda
Originally Posted by David-G
Originally Posted by Pianist685
Isn't it elitist already to play classical music on a piano?

No!!! The widely-held myth that classical music and opera is "elitist" is doing a lot of damage. Please let us not encourage it!
It all depends on the society/country whether it's elitist or not.

Here in the UK, uninformed newspaper articles keep pushing the old canard that classical music is "elitist". Orchestras are trying desperately hard to get new audiences, but this "elitism" nonsense does not help.

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Originally Posted by LavaWave
Another thing to consider, Steinway doesn't ship to Malta, the only big names I've seen on the 2 well known instrument websites from my country are Yamaha and Bosendorfer, there is no Steinway.

One of Malta's music store's website states 2 Zimmerman baby grands, one is a Zimmerman Z 160 and a smaller one and a ritmuller baby grand, I haven't heard of any of those manufacturers personally, while another site features several Yamaha's of several different sizes (both upright and baby/normal grand) and a few Bosendorfers that come in baby/normal grands.

As far as I am aware my country's options are limited on getting an actual grand, thankfully upright pianos are quite plentiful here but those who want a Steinway or another model besides those aforementioned has to pay for shipping fees for buying it from a far away country, which also means the Piano would need major tuning as soon as it gets home compared as to buy it from a store in your own home country, I assume the storekeepers keep their products well tuned, when you order by shipping from a far distance I think that you will take a gamble, it might not be worth it.

I read my own post and I realized it looks rushed and stupid, to make things clear and short what I wanted to say here is that outside of the USA and major EU countries big name products (not just Steinway or pianos in general) might not be available or have no stores in such locations, Malta has population is estimated at 441,543 people in 2020 which is why major sellers may not open stores here or locations with a small population, hopefully this clears what I want to say.

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RE the S, my piano tech says "S" stands for "stupid".

I recently played two Ms and they were so average; I just can't imagine spending that much money on such an instrument.


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Originally Posted by LavaWave
I read my own post and I realized it looks rushed and stupid, to make things clear and short what I wanted to say here is that outside of the USA and major EU countries big name products (not just Steinway or pianos in general) might not be available or have no stores in such locations, Malta has population is estimated at 441,543 people in 2020 which is why major sellers may not open stores here or locations with a small population, hopefully this clears what I want to say.

Your post was fine! No problem at all. Welcome to PW by the way.

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OK, thanks for the welcome David-G, I'm enjoying this community so far.

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Regarding possible Steinway "elite-ism"...

During my piano search I traveled fairly extensively and played many different makes of pianos at many different piano shops, visiting new and used piano dealers along the east coast of the U.S.

Which to buy?

It finally came down to the fact that tonal quality is what is most important to me, and I loved the Steinway sound most of all. After more than a year of searching, I bought a wonderful vintage rebuilt Steinway.***

I did not appreciate the comments I heard at the shops selling new Steinways, such things as 'it's the best piano in the world." I found those types of comments ridiculous and irritating, considering the number of truly great pianos made by other piano makers.

I hope it's all right to add another comment, an aside, regarding the comments made here earlier about Steinway O's. I played a number of vintage Steinway O's during my piano search. They seem to me to have a special "throaty" tonal quality with the ability to "growl". I found them very appealing.

Jeanne W

***I bought a Steinway but might have bought the dynamite Baldwin I had the opportunity to play at Cunningham's in Philly - if it had not been too big for my house. It sounded great and the action was a dream! ...And I'll never forget years later, when I played the most fantastical Steingraeber at a PianoWorld Gathering in Lowell, Massachusetts. I'd played a few Steingrabers during my piano search - they were great, but this particular Steingraeber, unlike the others, at first tinkling of the keys, resulted in a stunned pause and plastered a giant smile on my face.


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