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Originally Posted by Roy123
This whole business of wood parts somehow being better is really a red herring at best, and holds back the piano industry at worst..

Somewhat off topic tangent.

When restoring my 1859 Steinway I was confronted with what to do with the original shanks.

No brainer, you'd think, replace them with new ones.

On a square though, it's not that simple.

Instead, I coated the original shanks with the thickest layer of JB Weld 5 minute epoxy I could apply with a paintbrush.

One at a time, slowly, painstakingly, under magnification, and destroying a great pile of cheap kids paintbrushes.

Took a very very long time.

Heavier and stiffer and no bending at impact and reduced on-string hang-time.

And will never break.

Only set in the world as far as I know.

Fantastic performance.

Garage doityourselfer faux carbon lol.

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Originally Posted by Roy123
Kawaii actions do tend to feel different from Yamaha actions, but it has nothing to do with wood. In general, Kawaii actions have been heavier, but I don't know if that is still the case.

I do not find modern Millenium 3 action to be any heavier that Yamaha, or Renner actions found in premium pianos.

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Roy,
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This whole business of wood parts somehow being better

I did not say all wood was better, in fact I’ve been very careful to say it’s personal preference several times.

But I noticed the difference in the Kawai action before I even knew it was there. When I was piano shopping, one of the dealers I visited was an official Kawai dealer, so he had several new models (GL and what’s the more expensive line, GX?). I consistently disliked the action on all of the Kawai grands I played.

So I don’t know what the cause is, but the Kawai action and the Yamaha action are not the same, and you — or at least I — can feel it when playing them. It’s not my imagination.

“Better” is subjective. Better how? More consistent? Longer-lasting and more durable? The Kawai action might be better in these ways (I have no idea).

But different? Yes, objectively, factually different. And therefore, worth making a note of when comparing.

Which was my main goal in originally mentioning it.


Started piano June 1999.
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Roy,
Quote
This whole business of wood parts somehow being better

I did not say all wood was better, in fact I’ve been very careful to say it’s personal preference several times.

But I noticed the difference in the Kawai action before I even knew it was there. When I was piano shopping, one of the dealers I visited was an official Kawai dealer, so he had several new models (GL and what’s the more expensive line, GX?). I consistently disliked the action on all of the Kawai grands I played.

So I don’t know what the cause is, but the Kawai action and the Yamaha action are not the same, and you — or at least I — can feel it when playing them. It’s not my imagination.

“Better” is subjective. Better how? More consistent? Longer-lasting and more durable? The Kawai action might be better in these ways (I have no idea).

But different? Yes, objectively, factually different. And therefore, worth making a note of when comparing.

Which was my main goal in originally mentioning it.

You missed my point. I'm not claiming that Kawaii and Yamaha action don't feel different. In my experience they do. I was only making the point that the difference has little to nothing to do with wood v. composites and everything to do with a myriad of other details.

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Hi everyone, just to update.

I decided to pass on the C3 -- I asked the store about the ? crack at the bridge and the sales ignored me. I guess from her perspective, I'm looking at the cheapest one in the lot and maybe ask too many questions. I can't imagine how after sales service would be if there's problems down the road. So I passed it.

I ended up picking the 2000 Rx2 from a reputable dealer. ShiroKuro, I did pay particular attention to the action, and I think it's fine for my purpose. I've tested some pianos with lighter action like Bluthner or Schimmel, and my fingers fly on those. But at this stage, I needed more practice on my fourth/fifth finger (relatively stiff and weak) to gain better control. So a relatively regular action to practise on grade 9/10 pieces for me is good.

From a practical perspective -- the piano is going to be located in a rural area, and getting a technician for a major service might not be easy. I wanted a piano that will last 20-30 years, so the odds are much better with the 2000 RX2 than a 1983 C3 with moisture damage.

From a music perspective ,if the C3 gives me 100% satisfaction, then the RX2 gives 90% satisfaction -- so worth the tradeoff and peace of mind. I also need a piano like now -- I work in healthcare, we're expecting another huge COVID wave in the next 2-3 weeks, and this piano is going to give me solace and peace to ride through the tough times.

Thanks everyone for their advice and opinion -- it was really good education for me!

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Congratulations!!!!!!! Yay!!! Isn't the Rx2 slightly longer than a Yamaha C2 but shorter than a C3? (IIRC). I bet it sounds wonderful!

And the touch is purely preference, as I said above, Kawai makes very well-regarded pianos so I'm sure you'll be very happy!

Your aftercare comment is telling, too. I would have found that C3 seller off-putting as well, so I'm glad you were able to make a purchase you feel good about, from a place you feel good about!

Quote
I also need a piano like now -- I work in healthcare, we're expecting another huge COVID wave in the next 2-3 weeks, and this piano is going to give me solace and peace to ride through the tough times

In that case, I am doubly happy for you!

Piano has been my solace as well. Since the pandemic started, I have added a lot of "feel-good" easy pieces that I often play at the end of a practice session, it's like a mini music meditation.

Here's wishing you many happy hours with your new piano!

When do you take delivery??

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 01/14/22 07:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by GCPiano
Hi everyone, just to update.

I decided to pass on the C3 -- I asked the store about the ? crack at the bridge and the sales ignored me. I guess from her perspective, I'm looking at the cheapest one in the lot and maybe ask too many questions. I can't imagine how after sales service would be if there's problems down the road. So I passed it.

I ended up picking the 2000 Rx2 from a reputable dealer. ShiroKuro, I did pay particular attention to the action, and I think it's fine for my purpose. I've tested some pianos with lighter action like Bluthner or Schimmel, and my fingers fly on those. But at this stage, I needed more practice on my fourth/fifth finger (relatively stiff and weak) to gain better control. So a relatively regular action to practise on grade 9/10 pieces for me is good.

From a practical perspective -- the piano is going to be located in a rural area, and getting a technician for a major service might not be easy. I wanted a piano that will last 20-30 years, so the odds are much better with the 2000 RX2 than a 1983 C3 with moisture damage.

From a music perspective ,if the C3 gives me 100% satisfaction, then the RX2 gives 90% satisfaction -- so worth the tradeoff and peace of mind. I also need a piano like now -- I work in healthcare, we're expecting another huge COVID wave in the next 2-3 weeks, and this piano is going to give me solace and peace to ride through the tough times.

Thanks everyone for their advice and opinion -- it was really good education for me!

I agree with Dr. ShiroKur, Congratulations on your new-to-you Kawai RX2! A fine choice indeed! thumb

I was always in your corner regarding the moisture/mold laden Yamaha C3, hoping you would feel good about whatever piano you purchased; but as I looked closer at the photo enlargement of the small, hairline crack in the bridge, you could easily see how deeply embedded the mold really was. It looked very deeply embedded/saturated into the bridge cap itself, as well as the soundboard and all over the piano really. It was really bad.

So, I think you certainly made a good decision to pass on the Yamaha C3. Had the dealer/sales people been more accommodating to your questions regarding the C3 it might have been different.

Kawai has an excellent reputation and I own an older Kawai upright, and a Howard/Kawai grand. Both are very nice pianos and a joy to play.

Wishing you many years of enjoyment with your Kawai RX2!

Rick


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Congratulations! I think you’re going to really enjoy this piano. I know that when I was looking at pianos, there was a point at which I just realized the piano that felt right for me, and it sounds like this is how you regard the piano you bought. There were just too many questions with the C3 to feel comfortable buying it, and the RX2 is a purchase that you feel really good about. Please post some photos once it’s been delivered!

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Glad to hear that you’ve chosen RX2 instead of C3. With that much mold on the visible area, I was going to suggest hiring an independent tech to pull the action to inspect everywhere else including the felt parts as well as checking the integrity of the strings and pins for corrosion. I have to disagree with the seller’s comment that all or most grey market pianos are moldy. Congratulations on your RX2!

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Congratulations!


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“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



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Hi all, thanks so much for the wonderful support! Special thanks for blueviewlaguana for spotting the crack, otherwise I wouldn't have followed up on the dealer and discovered their true nature.

My suspicion is that this dealer takes in lower grade piano from Japan, touch it up, and sell it low for a quick profit. There are probably quite a few unsuspecting parents who buy them for their kids to learn, not having any idea about pianos in general. I went to this private C3 seller who bought it for their little kid to learn.... total overkill. I heard there are wealthy parents who walk into a Steinway store and paid sticker price for a Steinway A... so their kids can start learning piano ... crazy world.


In any case... the Kawai is arriving within 1 week. The dealer is recommended by a professional pianist friend, and the piano is from local market, looks to be in good shape, plays well... in fact I forgot to ask to see the actions and the hammers etc

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qWD1VxZpcEKTHW576
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2ui5u9fHpLcBNswS9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iXzJQzUEe8eCBxq98
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HS3Kv8tHTdKCfZwx5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rL6n7JA7hver1FEc7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jec3Zojjqw39Cz4LA

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FWIW, I would not have had concern about that minor bridge crack on a nearly 40 year old piano in comparison to the rest of the mold and grunge. By itself, if the note isn't presenting an issue in tone or tuning, it's fairly isolated. The ones we tend to worry about are the ones that are not isolated, suggesting a manufacturing defect.

However, I do think you made a good and logical decision with the younger RX2. Perhaps working with a tech once the piano is in your home, you can close that preference gap from 90% to 95% with a little special attention.

Congrats!


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Can’t speak to the impact on the instrument, but I live in a humid place. This looks like mildew to me. In my experience, sometimes this stuff gets into the surface of wood and comes back in the same place and pattern. There may be things that can be applied to the surface to prevent recurrence.

Last edited by MH1963; 01/15/22 10:15 PM.

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Originally Posted by GCPiano
Hi all, thanks so much for the wonderful support! Special thanks for blueviewlaguana for spotting the crack, otherwise I wouldn't have followed up on the dealer and discovered their true nature.

My suspicion is that this dealer takes in lower grade piano from Japan, touch it up, and sell it low for a quick profit. There are probably quite a few unsuspecting parents who buy them for their kids to learn, not having any idea about pianos in general. I went to this private C3 seller who bought it for their little kid to learn.... total overkill. I heard there are wealthy parents who walk into a Steinway store and paid sticker price for a Steinway A... so their kids can start learning piano ... crazy world.


In any case... the Kawai is arriving within 1 week. The dealer is recommended by a professional pianist friend, and the piano is from local market, looks to be in good shape, plays well... in fact I forgot to ask to see the actions and the hammers etc

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qWD1VxZpcEKTHW576
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2ui5u9fHpLcBNswS9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iXzJQzUEe8eCBxq98
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HS3Kv8tHTdKCfZwx5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rL6n7JA7hver1FEc7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jec3Zojjqw39Cz4LA

Glad to assist, the Kawaii photos look terrific. Looking forward to an update when it arrives.


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Originally Posted by Roy123
Kawaii actions do tend to feel different from Yamaha actions, but it has nothing to do with wood. In general, Kawaii actions have been heavier, but I don't know if that is still the case.

I tried a whole bunch of pianos this past week, a lot of them yamaha and Kawai. The kawai gl10 and yamaha gbk1 felt identical, heavy and stiff. I also compared the G2, C2, And GC2 with Kawai gl30 and gl40. The yamahas had the lighter action to my fingers. My favorite action was the gc2, but that was a new piano too. The gl30 was close to the yamaha gc 2 but still heavier. The kawai gl40 was lighter to the gl30, but that didn't make it equal to the yamaha gc2. The gl40 feels a little sluggish compared to the gc2. Not in a bad way, just different. The gl40 was my second favorite action from all these pianos. The gc2 action with the kawai gl40 sound would have been the perfect piano for me. But yes, I agree that kawais feel a bit heavier than the yamahas, with the exception of the smallest baby grands. Those two baby grand actions are terrible.


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