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Joined: Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by kre
I bought my first new piano when getting my first job and at same time moving out of my childhood home in my early twenties. After getting my first paycheck I walked into piano dealer and bought a new U3. (To be honest, I lended most of the money and it took 2 years to pay them back). I have never had any urge to own expensive cars or stuff, and I have never had any problems investing in instrument that is "too expensive". Pianos hold their value very well, it is not money wasted, it is more like money stored in your living room.

Before we get too OT here, pianos do depreciate and still require tuning and maintenance. So the “money stored in your living room” slowly decreases in value as the years go by. If a piano dealer ever said buying a piano is an investment, (I’ve heard this from piano friends), unfortunately it’s not true.

unfortunately….


J & J
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Here is the Piano Buyer depreciation schedule (table at the bottom)

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/buying-a-used-or-restored-piano-how-much-is-it-worth/


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by kre
I bought my first new piano when getting my first job and at same time moving out of my childhood home in my early twenties. After getting my first paycheck I walked into piano dealer and bought a new U3. (To be honest, I lended most of the money and it took 2 years to pay them back). I have never had any urge to own expensive cars or stuff, and I have never had any problems investing in instrument that is "too expensive". Pianos hold their value very well, it is not money wasted, it is more like money stored in your living room.

Before we get too OT here, pianos do depreciate and still require tuning and maintenance. So the “money stored in your living room” slowly decreases in value as the years go by. If a piano dealer ever said buying a piano is an investment, (I’ve heard this from piano friends), unfortunately it’s not true.

unfortunately….

I bought my new U3 for 6500, sold for 10 years later for 5500. Bought new C3 for 17000, sold 10 years later for 15500. Yes tuning is 100 per year. Owning a grand is by far the cheapest of my hobbies.

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Originally Posted by malkin
...2 maggots on a load of manure being hauled through the town. They decided to jump off and make their way in the world. So they jumped and one landed in a dry dusty spot in the middle of the road and the other landed in the middle of a dead cat.

I loved this story.

But why all that to-do about dead cats ? What did the wretched animals do to deserve so much witchcraft ? You can't swing a dead cat anymore without hitting a Schrödinger !

Last edited by Vikendios; 01/10/22 04:28 PM.

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The one maggot landed on a fat cat."She had brains and personality"😃 That's one interpretation, I am sure there are many..


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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Schrodinger's cat was buzzing around in my memory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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I played for three years as a child, from ages 10 to 13. At the end I was starting to work on a Mozart piano concerto (K.459, F maj). I hated this piece with a passion, and still do. That hatred, and my fear of my piano teacher's high-pressure techniques, forced me to quit. My mother, who was once quite a good pianist, was horribly disappointed. But I was too traumatized to continue.

That experience kept me away from the piano for the next 20 years. But in the meantime I discovered the piano music of Brahms, Schubert, Chopin, Debussy, and Ravel (to name just a few), which I'd never heard as a child. Eventually my love for the late pieces of Brahms overwhelmed me and I started renting a crappy upright so I could learn to play those pieces. I soon realized I was hopeless without a good teacher, and found a superb teacher in my area. He was a great pianist, who performed regularly and was always learning new music. He indulged me in my passion for Brahms, and gently encouraged me to try other composers.

After a few months I outgrew my crappy upright, and talked my mother into letting me have her 1917 Steinway M, which hadn't been played since I was a child. I was glad to have the piano, but the action had frozen up due to verdigris, so I had a rebuilder replace the action. This kept me going for a dozen years, but after I tried a couple of M&H BBs, both old and new, in some piano shops, it became apparent that I needed to get a BB somehow. This took a while, and eventually I found a used '94 model for a reasonable price.

What allowed me to splurge on the BB was (1) getting divorced, and (2) selling the family house. I couldn't have done it otherwise; when I was married we were always living paycheck to paycheck. Besides, my then-wife was always referring to the Steinway M as my "black mistress", so I know she would have never allowed the BB in the house just from the jealousy aspect.

I envy those of you who have indulgent or appreciative spouses.

Last edited by Mark Alexander; 01/11/22 10:20 AM.

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Originally Posted by Mark Alexander
I played for three years as a child, from ages 10 to 13. At the end I was starting to work on a Mozart piano concerto (K.459, F maj). I hated this piece with a passion, and still do. That hatred, and my fear of my piano teacher's high-pressure techniques, forced me to quit. My mother, who was once quite a good pianist, was horribly disappointed. But I was too traumatized to continue.

That experience kept me away from the piano for the next 20 years. But in the meantime I discovered the piano music of Brahms, Schubert, Chopin, Debussy, and Ravel (to name just a few), which I'd never heard as a child. Eventually my love for the late pieces of Brahms overwhelmed me and I started renting a crappy upright so I could learn to play those pieces. I soon realized I was hopeless without a good teacher, and found a superb teacher in my area. He was a great pianist, who performed regularly and was always learning new music. He indulged me in my passion for Brahms, and gently encouraged me to try other composers.

After a few months I outgrew my crappy upright, and talked my mother into letting me have her 1917 Steinway M, which hadn't been played since I was a child. I was glad to have the piano, but the action had frozen up due to verdigris, so I had a rebuilder replace the action. This kept me going for a dozen years, but after I tried a couple of M&H BBs, both old and new, in some piano shops, it became apparent that I needed to get a BB somehow. This took a while, and eventually I found a used '94 model for a reasonable price.

What allowed me to splurge on the BB was (1) getting divorced, and (2) selling the family house. I couldn't have done it otherwise; when I was married we were always living paycheck to paycheck. Besides, my then-wife was always referring to the Steinway M as my "black mistress", so I know she would have never allowed the BB in the house just from the jealousy aspect.

I envy those of you who have indulgent or appreciative spouses.

Hello Mark, I am truly sorry to hear that your ex wife was not supportive of your passion for piano. I hope for the best for you and your future piano endeavours.

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I worked (taught) at a music store that sold pianos for 21 years, so I was able to negotiate a great deal on a Young Chang grand in 1994. That piano has served me well since then, with a yearly tuning pretty much the only maintenance expense.


Private piano & voice teacher for over 20 years; currently also working as a pipe organist for 3 area churches; sing in a Chicago-area acappella chamber choir
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last year during some morning walk I visited a Kawai dealer & just realized that a new Indonesian made baby grand is only about less than US$10k, so at 54 been 3 yrs retired I was encouraged & made my mind to find used 1980's C2-3 size grand at $6k max,
was too lucky found my 2005 CRW190, also here in Indonesia piano dealers willing to put your choice of piano at some online shops where you could install for 12/24 months for very little fee/interest😊

ben

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Originally Posted by Sullivan
Started Piano with lessons 18-20 months ago at age 52.

Nice to see there are people who started at a way older age here, I thought starting at 31 is considered a late start.

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My piano progression started with a Yamaha P-115 from Guitar Center, more than fifty years after my two years of uninspiring lessons as a kid (of which I had forgotten nearly everything except how to read music, very slowly). Used my credit card, which I paid off in full (as always) the next month.

Within a year I had upgraded to a hybrid Yamaha N1; that held my interest for about six months and then I wanted an acoustic. Got a great deal (with trade-in) on a one-year-old YUS-5 upright (and also found a wonderful new teacher). I bought both the hybrid and the upright with zero-interest loans (18 months, then 12 months) through the dealer. Since I have never had car payments, and have always paid off my credit card in full each month, seeing the payments fly out of my bank account was a new experience, but I never regretted it. Sometimes it was motivation to practice, so I would be a better player by the time the piano was paid off! I had been gliding into retirement (self-employed) for a long time, so maybe the payments kept me working a bit more for a bit longer.

Then came Covid. Life is short, I said to myself, and so I went shopping for a grand piano. I fell in love with an Estonia, traded in my YUS-5 (goodbye Mister Upright!), and drew on a home equity loan to pay the rest. Most expensive thing I’ve ever bought (except for the roof over my head) and totally worth it. I play Miss Serena (almost) every day. Coming up on five years and I am learning Bach, Brahms, Chopin (the easy stuff!); Serena and I have a thing for Piazzolla. If we live long enough, we might explore some ragtime and blues. There is so much music in this world! And I’m often in awe at making music with my own two hands.


I wish I lived in a big enough place for house concerts (featuring someone else playing) on "Serena," my Estonia L168. I may have to move! Meanwhile I recently acquired a Kawai ES110 for late-night practice sessions.
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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
2020 - COVID COVID COVID
2021 - Both my parents were lost to COVID within 2 weeks of each other.
I then inherit a little bit of financial support from my deceased parents.
brdwyguy

Damn that’s brutal, I’m so sorry about your parents. I hate Covid, i lost my dad to covid as well and he had so much life and time before he left. He was infected only two months before the vaccine became available. Anyways, im so sorry for your loss.This whole experience made me rethink my life and all of a sudden having another child and a grand piano became a priority. Im in the process of buying a piano. I don’t really spend much on anything and I’m quite frugal. Im thinking of spending 17k at most. If i buy new I’ll probably put down 10k and pay the remaining within a year with a 0% interest payment. But if i only had 5k id probably get me a really nice digital piano.

Last edited by drvenom; 01/18/22 02:42 PM.

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I guess if you're not from a family of great wealth, or don't have a performance-quality instrument passed on to you, the word is "all in good time."

I started playing when I was around nine on the execrable old Gulbranson upright that my mother had banged on very perfunctorily and unsuccessfully when she was a child in the 1930s. She was determined that I wouldn't be as dense and recalcitrant as she had been ... grin

Well, in truth I started at about age six or so with nuns at the parochial school. But they were the sort that literally smacked your hand with a ruler for wrong notes. That is not a made up tale to discredit Catholicism, by the way. It's just the facts! My mother found out and yanked me from their tender clutches. It took several years before she could persuade me that I wouldn't be beaten by a teacher. That man was named Rorer G. Covington, in the southern reaches of Dade county Florida. He was a very kindly gentleman, and a good teacher for me in the early stages.

I worked with him until I was fifteen, slaving away on that crappy Gulbranson. It was a true limiting factor. I did become decently proficient, and a "star" in his studio. He put me in some competitions and master classes, but they served to highlight my deficiencies (long story). my mom decided that I needed a switch. I don't remember feeling very animated about it. I rather liked Mr. Covington, but I too was embarrassed by my problems with difficult repertoire.

Part of the lure to get me to try a new teacher was a promised new piano ... a grand as you might have guessed. They had me try out some pianos as a mall store in Dadeland. I remember really falling for a Bosendorfer in the seven foot range. I was old enough to look at the price tag and walk away!

They got what they could afford, which was a brand new 5'9" Howard. It was actually a Kawai 550G that Kawai sold under the old Baldwin/Howard label as a way to tap the US market with its residual anti-Japanese mentality. But "Kawai" was stamped on the plate, and Hamamatsu embossed on the soundboard. In those days, Japanese meant "cheap" to many people. I think the piano cost around $1,700. That was a substantial sum for them back in 1971 (around $12K today).

So I switched to a professor at the University of Miami (Rosalina Sackstein) for the remaining two years of my high school training. She had too little time to really undo all of my bad habits, but I credit her for making real progress in that direction, and for allowing me to actually see what was possible from the instrument. I was also pretty intimidated in her studio given the amazing talent level I saw around me. Seven year old prodigies. High school students planning to attend fine conservatories. And so on. Her studio was big enough that we filled a bus to get to the state Federation competition.

Fast forward thirty years and my own son is beginning lessons on the same Kawai I had played in high school. I had maintained it in immaculate condition. But it was what it was. An instrument with limited dynamic range and a rather heavy action. He started late, at age nine. But by 12 Piano*Son was up to starting Beethoven sonatas and having fun with easier Debussy repertoire like Golliwog's Cakewalk. It was apparent to me that my 35 year old instrument would limit him in the way that the horrible and tinny Gulbranson had limited me.

We undertook an epic search up and down the east coast (Raleigh to NYC). I documented that search here at PW in 2005. He fell in love with things like a Steinway A at Steinway Hall (quite a story there) and a 7' something Fazioli at Ruggero Piano in Raleigh. I taught him about budget constraints.

So when I found the one for me it was both my own midlife crisis, and an instrument for Piano*Son to use as he developed his skills. That "one" was a Grotrian 192 that we purchased from Cathy Harl in Alexandria. Carl Demler at Beethoven piano in NY wanted to sell me one too, but I stayed closer to home.

So there is the seventy year arc from a broken down Gulbranson spinet in the 1930s to a good starter grand by Kawai in 1971, and finally on to a performance instrument by Grotrian in 2005. At some point, Piano*Son will likely reclaim "his" piano and get back to playing again once his career settles down.

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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
I guess if you're not from a family of great wealth, or don't have a performance-quality instrument passed on to you, the word is "all in good time."

I started playing when I was around nine on the execrable old Gulbranson upright that my mother had banged on very perfunctorily and unsuccessfully when she was a child in the 1930s. She was determined that I wouldn't be as dense and recalcitrant as she had been ... grin

Well, in truth I started at about age six or so with nuns at the parochial school. But they were the sort that literally smacked your hand with a ruler for wrong notes. That is not a made up tale to discredit Catholicism, by the way. It's just the facts! My mother found out and yanked me from their tender clutches. It took several years before she could persuade me that I wouldn't be beaten by a teacher. That man was named Rorer G. Covington, in the southern reaches of Dade county Florida. He was a very kindly gentleman, and a good teacher for me in the early stages.

I worked with him until I was fifteen, slaving away on that crappy Gulbranson. It was a true limiting factor. I did become decently proficient, and a "star" in his studio. He put me in some competitions and master classes, but they served to highlight my deficiencies (long story). my mom decided that I needed a switch. I don't remember feeling very animated about it. I rather liked Mr. Covington, but I too was embarrassed by my problems with difficult repertoire.

Part of the lure to get me to try a new teacher was a promised new piano ... a grand as you might have guessed. They had me try out some pianos as a mall store in Dadeland. I remember really falling for a Bosendorfer in the seven foot range. I was old enough to look at the price tag and walk away!

They got what they could afford, which was a brand new 5'9" Howard. It was actually a Kawai 550G that Kawai sold under the old Baldwin/Howard label as a way to tap the US market with its residual anti-Japanese mentality. But "Kawai" was stamped on the plate, and Hamamatsu embossed on the soundboard. In those days, Japanese meant "cheap" to many people. I think the piano cost around $1,700. That was a substantial sum for them back in 1971 (around $12K today).

So I switched to a professor at the University of Miami (Rosalina Sackstein) for the remaining two years of my high school training. She had too little time to really undo all of my bad habits, but I credit her for making real progress in that direction, and for allowing me to actually see what was possible from the instrument. I was also pretty intimidated in her studio given the amazing talent level I saw around me. Seven year old prodigies. High school students planning to attend fine conservatories. And so on. Her studio was big enough that we filled a bus to get to the state Federation competition.

Fast forward thirty years and my own son is beginning lessons on the same Kawai I had played in high school. I had maintained it in immaculate condition. But it was what it was. An instrument with limited dynamic range and a rather heavy action. He started late, at age nine. But by 12 Piano*Son was up to starting Beethoven sonatas and having fun with easier Debussy repertoire like Golliwog's Cakewalk. It was apparent to me that my 35 year old instrument would limit him in the way that the horrible and tinny Gulbranson had limited me.

We undertook an epic search up and down the east coast (Raleigh to NYC). I documented that search here at PW in 2005. He fell in love with things like a Steinway A at Steinway Hall (quite a story there) and a 7' something Fazioli at Ruggero Piano in Raleigh. I taught him about budget constraints.

So when I found the one for me it was both my own midlife crisis, and an instrument for Piano*Son to use as he developed his skills. That "one" was a Grotrian 192 that we purchased from Cathy Harl in Alexandria. Carl Demler at Beethoven piano in NY wanted to sell me one too, but I stayed closer to home.

So there is the seventy year arc from a broken down Gulbranson spinet in the 1930s to a good starter grand by Kawai in 1971, and finally on to a performance instrument by Grotrian in 2005. At some point, Piano*Son will likely reclaim "his" piano and get back to playing again once his career settles down.

Terrific story and a great read!


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Like most of my millennial constituents, I opted out of having children. Just dogs. I'm 33 and the proud owner of a Steinway-designed baby grand. I'll be able to trade up to a Steinway in a few years because I don't have to pay for anyone's college tuition. It's really wonderful.

Without kids you can afford almost anything

Last edited by Ticklethedawn; 02/02/22 06:22 PM.
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I was 18 years old, headed for college to study music. I wanted a grand with a beautiful bass, and went to my local yamaha dealer. Our church had recently rented a Yamaha C2 for a special service. I played it and loved it, but when I got to the dealer, I immediatley noticed the difference between the C2 and C3. I was sold!

My grandmother gave me $10,000 and I financed the balance with my Dad as a co-signer. My love affair with Yamaha continues to this day (I'm 42) and I still have the C3 which I keep maintained.

I am blessed to have been able to acquire this piano, brand new, when I did. Marriage, 3 kids, and a career could have easily re-directed any piano funds. Now, I have a quality instrument and owe nothing on it.


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Originally Posted by Ticklethedawn
Like most of my millennial constituents, I opted out of having children. Just dogs. I'm 33 and the proud owner of a Steinway-designed baby grand. I'll be able to trade up to a Steinway in a few years because I don't have to pay for anyone's college tuition. It's really wonderful.

Without kids you can afford almost anything


You’re assuming that everyone who wants to buy a piano has an above average income; that is not the case.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Originally Posted by Ticklethedawn
Like most of my millennial constituents, I opted out of having children. Just dogs. I'm 33 and the proud owner of a Steinway-designed baby grand. I'll be able to trade up to a Steinway in a few years because I don't have to pay for anyone's college tuition. It's really wonderful.

Without kids you can afford almost anything

Ha, it's rare to hear anyone make a statement like that, it's just not accepted by our society.

Children are a luxury good, there is no doubt about that, far more expensive than any grand piano, if you add up all the costs from birth, through college, and when they stay at home into their late 20s, lol.

Last edited by LarryK; 02/02/22 08:05 PM.
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