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I am not convinced that the "falling lights" are an helpful learning tool in the long run, but if you are really interested I think that the Chordana app that is used in the Casio AP710 is a good alternative (the app has a falling light learning tool that can read any midi file, I believe. The downside is that - obviously - the lights are not near the keys but in the tablet screen).

On the other hand, you may consider buying a good DP AND a cheap yamaha or casio keyboard with lighted keys for the first months of learning. A CLP plus a cheap lighted keyboard is probably less than the CSP170...

I bought a CLP-625 about 3 years ago and am disappointed because of how often I need service because of action noise. The repair guy, a Yamaha employee, doesn't seem surprised. I never had this problem with a 30+ year old Yamaha which didn't have graduated hammers and had very short sound samples. When I've told the repair guy that Yamaha keyboards seem to have declined in quality significantly over the past 30+ years he has not disagreed.

The other scrap of advice I will offer is to know how sensitive your fingers and ears are. It's like wine tasting. Some people can tell you which vineyard a burgundy came from, and others can't tell the difference - in a blind taste test - between a red and a white. I doubt that I could tell the difference, if blind folded, between the sound of a great acoustic piano and a decent digital piano with decent samples. And the same for keyboards. I wouldn't know, again if blind folded, if I was sitting at my CLP-625 or a $100,000 concert grand. That may mean I am a piano Neanderthal, but it has saved me a lot of money!

I hadn't heard of the CSPs before so I watched a Yamaha video on them and it seemed to me that the iPhone was only supplying the samples. The video did not mention any functions which I would characterize as smart. But maybe there are some and the video I was watching just didn't mention them.

Best of luck in your adventure. Bob

FWIW --

(a) I liked Moto Dilletante's early response. His approach:

. . . You want to learn, but you have no experience, yet.


. . . So, get something less expensive than your budget, to test whether you'll enjoy learning enough to stick with it.

. . . And if you do, and you still want something better, sell your "beginner DP", and buy something better.

(b) If you spend time in the Adult Beginners forum, you'll see a general bias against "falling lights", lighted keys, and other gimmicks. They may seem to be useful at the very early stages of study, but you'll outgrow them quickly. And whether they are useful _at all_, is open to debate.

So -- without trying too hard to spend your money -- I'd be inclined to buy the Casio AP-710. It's easily good enough to get you through several years of study. It doesn't have all the features of the CSP-170 (in particular, auto-chording and auto-accompaniment), but it's way less expensive.

. . . If and when you outgrow it, sell it, and buy something better, using the knowledge you will have developed.

Charles Cohen's advice, as usual, seems right on point.

Hey thanks so much for the responses....

So what does the CSP 170 match in the CLP range? 735? 745? 775? 785?

Take away the smart device integration from all Clavinovas above, which one best matches the 170?

After all they can all be used with Yamaha Smart Pianist app ??????????????

If you were FORCED to spend £3000 to £3500 which would you buy??????

Having said that, Charles Cohen's advice does indeed seem sensible......

Rav

It doesn't match any.

The CLP series was updated and the CSP wasn't yet. So, the CLP models have a new key action and some improvements in the piano sound.

Whether these then make any difference (for a beginner/hobbyist) is another question.

Or what's the benefit of the guiding lights. Yamaha had those already in some older CVP models, so it's nothing new and Yamaha has kept the technology over the decades. So, maybe Yamaha finds them useful.

Technology-wise the Yamaha P-515 is a close match in a different form factor and minus the guiding lights.

Useful as a sales argument, yes...

About the lights, IMO they may become a hindrance pretty soon instead of helping.

So if it doesn't match, what CLP would be a better buy in the long term.....???

The cheapest ?

If I can offer my suggestion, (for what it's worth), I wouldn't get too hooked up on which keyboard. I'd pick something at the lower end from any of the better known brands (Yamaha, Kawai, Casio Celviano and possibly a couple more).

Check out their features and reviews on Thomann.de and then pick one that appeals to you.

For your first piano, you probably don't need or will even notice the difference between the higher end actions, and if you're still playing in a few years you can treat yourself to a nice upgrade as a reward.

Even something like a Kawai ES110, on the dedicated stand, would be more than adequate for the first few years. There's possibly even a few available second hand near you for around 10% of what you were planning to spend. If you choose to sell it in a year or two then you won't loose much money (I sold mine for more than I paid after 2 years).

My other advice is find a teacher that suits you and what you want to achieve. I went through a few that wanted to teach me to play songs I wasn't interested in, until I found my current teacher who is far more adaptable. He teaches via Zoom and is on European time, if you're interested.

It just occurred to me, that if on the other hand somebody is saying they'll give you any piano you want as a present up to £3,500 then just do the opposite of what I said above.

Pick a well known brand and go for one as close to the upper limit as you can find, that gets good reviews.

However as Charles Cohen and others have said, you really don't need to spend that much.

It doesn't "match" if staring at the specifications like the key action and the piano sound.

The differences in the piano sound are of course marginal only and not a deal breaker.

The difference in the key action is partly a matter of taste. People seem to say the new actions in the CLP-700 series feel a bit lighter than earlier Yamaha actions like the NWX in the CSP-170.

But still they are all just "digital piano actions" and the CLP-700 series actions are of course much closer to previous Clavinova actions than real acoustic pianos, so even there one might say that the difference is "marginal".

I've yet to see a comment about the guiding lights from someone who has actually tried them. I guess no one has, but are dismissing the idea without trying it. Maybe because they can already play and read musical notation(?)

If you want the CSP-170 you might as well just get the CSP-170.

It should be as good as a CLP-600 series Clavinova, the lights are optional (if later you end up not liking/needing them) and it has a nice uncluttered design. The only bad thing is that you'll then need the iPad to access some of the features.

from what I've read, the heaviest is the Grand Touch (675) and the 685 has counter weights that make it lighter (and better). Personally I don't get it, but I suppose mass production make for those weird choices.

I agree. Spare the money on the piano and spend it on a teacher

After lots of online research and speaking to piano specialists on the phone, it seems the CSP170 isn't the best choice...

So now its either the YAMAHA CLP 775

or

Casio GP 510...

I am happy with the 775 and the Smart Pianist app....

What app would compliment the 510 and why?

Should I subscribe to Flowkey?

Rav

So the detailed research continues, and I seem to be gaining quite a lot of ideas for my first DP. At least I have a clue now as to where my ££££ will go...

There is a chance I may disregard anything from Casio..

So as it stands on this fairly mild evening in the UK and very early into 2022 I may have decided on either.......

( Drum roll please !!!)

1. Yamaha CLP 775
2. Kawai CA99

Why?

1. I like they have Bluetooth
2. I like the fact they both have dedicated IOS apps (PianoRemote & SmartPianist)
3. They both have what appear to be great sound and actions
4. I can subscribe to Flowkey and use my iPad using BLE
5. In respect of the CA99 I like the fact that it is a one piece unit

The only thing I need to get happy with is all the comments I have read in relation to the CLP 775 'heavy key action', and the only way to do this is to test each DP side by side if I can...

Wish me luck..

Rav