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Nowadays I see a sonata or symphony referred to as a "song." This bothers me, but I understand that it is a recent thing, stemming from the way some internet sites label such works. Is anyone else annoyed by this erroneous usage?

This has been discussed here on PW many times in the past. I think it has more to do with "music genre" and "music culture". Sonatas and Classical music is/are usually referred to as "pieces", as a general rule. If some refer to those works as songs, why let it irritate you? To them, it may well be a song. I'm sure they mean no disrespect to the Classical music genre or composers or musicians.

I was driving back home from a trip this past Sunday evening, and listening to NPR on the radio, who was playing recent recordings by the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra, who was performing at the Savannah Music Festival. The leader of the orchestra referred to every piece they played as "songs", though most were instrumentals. And, their performance was absolutely fantastic!

Anyway, I think when someone refers to a non-lyric piece of music as a "song", it is like someone calling an SUV a car. It is just a term they are familiar with.

All genres of music have much to offer a music lover, whether it is a piece or a song.

Rick

Many of us have complained about this phenomenon, this blurring of precise reference and dumbing down of meaning, over the last few years here on Piano World, but most of us have just been told to "get over it," that this is the new norm. I don't accept it and will never use "song" unless I refer to one in its traditional sense, but I have stopped writing about it on Piano World.

Regards,

Not quite yet, but you're almost there!

I haven’t seen the use of the word ‘song’ when ‘piece’ would be more appropriate corrected on PW in a long time. ‘Song’ seems to be the new normal; I have even seen some piano scores for sale with the description being ‘ a song by Chopin’ or a ‘song by Beethoven’.

I personally hate it, but just remain silent unless asked my opinion—- as this thread did. Since our opinions were solicited, I gave it. I’m sure Bruce also felt it was appropriate to answer, as well, for the same reason.

I haven’t noticed this to be honest, but it does sound cheap and uninformed. On the other hand, I’m grateful to anyone that still cares enough to discuss great music; perhaps if they make a habit of exploring it they will absorb our labels. I trust that transcendent music will indeed transcend any of this.

People are obviously entitled to use whatever word they please about any concept. If we feel that words are used wrongly, we are of course equally entitled to share our opinion about that.

But mainly, I think we should (and necessarily will) categorize other people based on their use of language.

This topic is more appropriate for the Pianist Corner, where music is discussed. This forum is for discussion of pianos, manufacturers, etc.

I’m going to take this in a different direction… hopefully some will have insights. To me, this discussion of musical language comes from being brought up and taught in a Western classical music tradition. Many people coming to the piano, or otherwise engaging with Western classical music, are coming from places that have very rich but different musical traditions. Perhaps the use of the word “song” to describe a variety of musical compositions makes sense within the perspective of someone who has been brought up in a very different musical tradition and reflects how that tradition categorizes music?
I enjoy listening to music from other places, but I certainly haven’t studied this music in any way, and I listen to it very informally. If someone is singing, I would call it a song. Otherwise, I would use the more generic ‘piece.’ How should I discuss music that is part of an integrated experience with dance or theater? Distinctions made between sacred and secular music? I suspect that within the context of Indian classical music, or Indonesian musical traditions, or choose your favorite musical tradition, my use of language is imprecise and erroneous.

I hope that it is ok for me to superficially engage with these musical traditions. If others engage with Western classical music in this way, I don’t have a problem with it. However, if you do start wanting to explore music more deeply, I think that the use of precise and correct language can help us better understand what we are listening to — as well as to communicate with performers and those who have a truly deep understanding of the music.

Western classical music tradition does not use ‘song’ to be all encompassing of all styles and genres.

It seems those that use song to be encompassing come from a background of popular music, and little to no classical music.

The more I know…the less I understand!

If there are lyrics then it is a song? Beethoven’s Ode to Joy is it a Symphony or a song? And what would Handel’s Messiah be classified as?

Pachebel’s Canon in D is a canon, except when Trans Siberian Orchestra added Lyrics, then it is a song?

If I sing along with an instrumental, then it is a song?

Somebody please explain the exact specific precise difference between a Sonata and a Sonatina? Where is the dividing line?

People often use generalities to convey meaning, until it is necessary for precise specifics.

I have heard some people state after hearing a sermon or speech “that was music to my ears.”. My first though…what key was it written in?

+1

Panama, not sure what side of the tracks you're from, but I think we're both from the same side... I couldn't agree with you more!

It's sad that there is such division amongst the ranks, and we are judged, labeled, classified and "categorized" based on whether we call it a "song" or a "piece". But, alas, such is an Internet Forum. It could be worse, I suppose.

Rick

Isn't a song a track to download and put in a playlist for your next listening experience?

Maybe Felix Mendelssohn saw this coming...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_Without_Words

ps...Hi Rick!

In the commercial world, didn't iTunes start this, or has the use of "song" for any classical composition pre-dated iTunes?

Regards,

and so did YouTube. Good point !!!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nX3D31EStqVKYLsLfjpVgxnhOlHekXdpI

Hi, rocket88! I'm still enjoying the CD you sent me! And, I'm still your biggest fan! For those here who may not realize it, there are professional artist/musicians/celebrities among us, whether they play "songs" or "pieces".

I love your "songs", "pieces" and arrangements, rocket88!

Rick

This seems to be a problem in the english language only, so it is neglectable...😉

You are very kind, Rick!

I am not to be think that the english is mattering so much. Truly is being négligeable.