2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Advanced Piano Tricks
Advanced Piano Tricks
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
78 members (anotherscott, blueviewlaguna., anamnesis, andrea83, Albertan, Bill McKaig,RPT, An Old Square, 36251, clothearednincompo, 17 invisible), 1,375 guests, and 471 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,871

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,871
Originally Posted by Sidokar
I am a serious dilettante ! Though it is an aporia, i really to think of it that way.
Thanks for helping me add a new word to my limited vocabulary. grin


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,666
B
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,666
What about casual and serious web surfers? Why don't we notice we are responding to a 1 time poster (trying to push a link)? It's kind of amusing that the discussion continues because of it laugh

AI chat bots hacking PW world ...


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
Yamaha C3X
YouTube
[Linked Image]

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,169
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,169
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
What about casual and serious web surfers? Why don't we notice we are responding to a 1 time poster (trying to push a link)? It's kind of amusing that the discussion continues because of it laugh

AI chat bots hacking PW world ...

This one does not seem to be a bot, like the other ones yesterday. Still, my prediction goes like this:


Today, bots are relatively easily spotted
Tomorrow, actual humans are relatively easily spotted
The day after tomorrow, humans no longer participate


😦


EDIT: On second thought, I agree that it's also a bot operating in this thread. Damn clever one, though.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 368
Z
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 368
who can earn some money with music is a "professional", otherwise is "amateur"


1970s' Petrof 125
youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY5TdJHAB6HAYYgdgQliww
recent added:BACH WTC I bwv847 C minor
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,216
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,216
Anybody who practices everyday at any level can be considered a serious musician.

Between an amateur & professional the divide is straightforward. Someone who makes a living from playing or composing music is a professional. I've met people who play with local ensembles at an advanced level. Some even entered prestigious competitions but they have careers outside music like a doctor or lawyer.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,666
B
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,666
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
What about casual and serious web surfers? Why don't we notice we are responding to a 1 time poster (trying to push a link)? It's kind of amusing that the discussion continues because of it laugh

AI chat bots hacking PW world ...

This one does not seem to be a bot, like the other ones yesterday. Still, my prediction goes like this:


Today, bots are relatively easily spotted
Tomorrow, actual humans are relatively easily spotted
The day after tomorrow, humans no longer participate


😦


EDIT: On second thought, I agree that it's also a bot operating in this thread. Damn clever one, though.

Yea, I was referring to medsakord, not the original poster. I don't think it's a stretch to think it's a grammar school CS project to create a NLG model, based on data here, and have ai chat bots respond to people's posts? That would be fun ;0


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
Yamaha C3X
YouTube
[Linked Image]

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,169
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,169
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Yea, I was referring to medsakord, not the original poster. I don't think it's a stretch to think it's a grammar school CS project to create a NLG model, based on data here, and have ai chat bots respond to people's posts? That would be fun ;0

The idea of having multiple bots carry out a discussion with each other is highly intriguing, but based on its conversational style, I think medsakord is actually an OpenAI bot, rather than a school project.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,666
B
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,666
Maybe I can ask LaMDA all my piano questions in the future? laugh ... you know, what the definition of sight reading is, haha


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
Yamaha C3X
YouTube
[Linked Image]

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,081
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,081
Dynamics!



Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,871

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until November 30 2022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,871
Originally Posted by MadLiszt
Dynamics!
thumb thumb thumb ha


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 827
R
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 827
In my view, I decide based on the level of their playing and practice strategy/efficiency. For example, advanced students/players tend to be able to focus for long periods of time, regularly practice over an hour a day, know the difference between playing and practicing, and practice in an efficient manner, honing in very fast on trouble spots and learning/memorizing within say a few days. They know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there reliably within time constraints.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,549
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,549
Originally Posted by ranjit
In my view, I decide based on the level of their playing and practice strategy/efficiency. For example, advanced students/players tend to be able to focus for long periods of time, regularly practice over an hour a day, know the difference between playing and practicing, and practice in an efficient manner, honing in very fast on trouble spots and learning/memorizing within say a few days. They know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there reliably within time constraints.

I don’t agree with this part of your criteria: ‘ they know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there’. If you really think about the members of this forum, there are serious students at every level but a very, very small percentage that expect to play at s concert standard’. This does not make them ‘non serious’: they are serious about continually learning and developing but without illusions of being eventually ‘concert level’.

Last edited by dogperson; 11/26/21 05:54 PM.
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 827
R
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 827
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by ranjit
In my view, I decide based on the level of their playing and practice strategy/efficiency. For example, advanced students/players tend to be able to focus for long periods of time, regularly practice over an hour a day, know the difference between playing and practicing, and practice in an efficient manner, honing in very fast on trouble spots and learning/memorizing within say a few days. They know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there reliably within time constraints.

I don’t agree with this part of your criteria: ‘ they know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there’. If you really think about the members of this forum, there are serious students at every level but a very, very small percentage that expect to play at s concert standard’. This does not make them ‘non serious’: they are serious about continually learning and developing but without illusions of being eventually ‘concert level’.
Well then, I would consider them amateur. As far as classical music is concerned, that is how I differentiate between 'professional' and 'amateur' in my mind. Well, that does mean that participants in the van Cliburn fall under the 'professional' category in my view, and so does someone who say did piano performance at conservatory and then quit to become a doctor.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,549
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,549
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by ranjit
In my view, I decide based on the level of their playing and practice strategy/efficiency. For example, advanced students/players tend to be able to focus for long periods of time, regularly practice over an hour a day, know the difference between playing and practicing, and practice in an efficient manner, honing in very fast on trouble spots and learning/memorizing within say a few days. They know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there reliably within time constraints.

I don’t agree with this part of your criteria: ‘ they know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there’. If you really think about the members of this forum, there are serious students at every level but a very, very small percentage that expect to play at s concert standard’. This does not make them ‘non serious’: they are serious about continually learning and developing but without illusions of being eventually ‘concert level’.
Well then, I would consider them amateur. As far as classical music is concerned, that is how I differentiate between 'professional' and 'amateur' in my mind. Well, that does mean that participants in the van Cliburn fall under the 'professional' category in my view, and so does someone who say did piano performance at conservatory and then quit to become a doctor.

Yes, it makes them a serious amateur.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,668
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,668
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by ranjit
In my view, I decide based on the level of their playing and practice strategy/efficiency. For example, advanced students/players tend to be able to focus for long periods of time, regularly practice over an hour a day, know the difference between playing and practicing, and practice in an efficient manner, honing in very fast on trouble spots and learning/memorizing within say a few days. They know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there reliably within time constraints.

I don’t agree with this part of your criteria: ‘ they know what it means to perform at a concert standard and have a strategy to get there’. If you really think about the members of this forum, there are serious students at every level but a very, very small percentage that expect to play at s concert standard’. This does not make them ‘non serious’: they are serious about continually learning and developing but without illusions of being eventually ‘concert level’.
Well then, I would consider them amateur. As far as classical music is concerned, that is how I differentiate between 'professional' and 'amateur' in my mind. Well, that does mean that participants in the van Cliburn fall under the 'professional' category in my view, and so does someone who say did piano performance at conservatory and then quit to become a doctor.
Amateurs can clearly be serious which is what dogperson was saying. The question was not about amateur vs. professional. Any level pianist can be serious.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,183
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,183
I was a serious musician ever since I was introduced to classical music by my first teacher at the age of ten, and began practising seriously.

But it never occurred to me to make music my career, because I had all the musical talent of a gnat (or Scottish midge) and almost every other kid I knew who had piano lessons was ahead of me (having started a few years earlier)......though in most cases I eventually caught up and overtook them (though it took years) - because I was a serious musician cool.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 36
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 36
I think it's not so simple. Van Gogh made virtually no money from his paintings. Would you refer to him as an amateur or casual painter?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,621
Playing with it
Originally Posted by Roshan Kakiya
You can read a score upside down and still completely adhere to it.

You can read a score upside down, completely adhere to it, realize that it does not sound like music, and turn it around the right way.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,199
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,199
Originally Posted by rubinsteinway
I think it's not so simple. Van Gogh made virtually no money from his paintings. Would you refer to him as an amateur or casual painter?

Technically, he was an amateur painter.

The real issue with the word is that it has more than one meaning. It can also mean unskilled, as well as not done for money. For example, if something is described as "amateurish", it doesn't specifically refer to being unpaid, but instead, it refers to level of quality.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 890
T
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 890
The difference between amateur and professional is how much your paid and by whom. Amateur doesn't mean less gifted or skilled.

Casual and serious are not mutually exclusive. Most people, like you or me, have a day job and therefore can't devote hours of our time to practicing, because we have to feed ourselves. Does that insinuate none of us are serious about music? No---we live in a real world and most people don't have the luxury of spending an entire day with our instruments. We'd all be concert pianists if that were the case. Well, not all of us, but you get the point

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Factory silent options
by Gombessa - 01/26/22 11:23 AM
History of Yamaha U1 price
by VeritasNL - 01/26/22 10:25 AM
Where to find a concert grand to play
by Keyburn - 01/26/22 08:42 AM
17th Adilia Alieva International Music Competition
by Alex-Peter - 01/26/22 06:21 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics211,362
Posts3,164,093
Members104,170
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5