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Joined: Nov 2015
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Marc345 Offline OP
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Just ordered the MP11SE.

Now I'm wondering if I can turn it into an optical MIDI controller using PNOscan if I should feel the need for it.

Does anyone have pictures of the Grand Feel keybed with a few keys removed so one can see how much space there is below them.


HW: MP11SE, Touche SE (+Arturia Keylab Ess. 88, Akai MPK249, in reserve: GEM Promega 3)
SW: Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft 275, Modern U, Noire, Absolute 5, Acousticsamples B5
Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GZgdFm3
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Marc345 Offline OP
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Seems like there is a few mm space there:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2272103/Kawai_Grand_Feel_key_clinic.html

Hard to see if that's actually enough.


HW: MP11SE, Touche SE (+Arturia Keylab Ess. 88, Akai MPK249, in reserve: GEM Promega 3)
SW: Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft 275, Modern U, Noire, Absolute 5, Acousticsamples B5
Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GZgdFm3
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Is there any evidence that optical in the mp11se would improve it over the rubber sensors? The kawai action is designed to press against the rubber sensors, and if you remove that it will certainly change the movement of the pseudo-hammers (the rubber sensors are above the end of the key and are pushed by the plastic shaft of the hammer, near its pivot point).
I would reserve the pnoscan system for the day the rubber sensors decalibrate or stop working: if the action is in working condition, you can then install a current and up to date silent grand piano system...

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Marc345 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by vagfilm
I would reserve the pnoscan system for the day the rubber sensors decalibrate or stop working: if the action is in working condition, you can then install a current and up to date silent grand piano system...

Or if Kawai refuses to accept my requirements under their warranty plan. That's the plan. Though I'd still like to know if that's possible without changing the Grand Feel keyboard structurally.

BTW there is now PNOscan III. Anyone know the differences between the I II and III versions?

Last edited by Marc345; 11/19/21 02:14 PM.

HW: MP11SE, Touche SE (+Arturia Keylab Ess. 88, Akai MPK249, in reserve: GEM Promega 3)
SW: Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft 275, Modern U, Noire, Absolute 5, Acousticsamples B5
Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GZgdFm3
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I don't recall many sensor complaints on the MP11 or the MP11se. I would not assume the PNOscan would outperform onboard industrial engineering.

AFAIK, the only recurring complaint on the MP11se was the slip tape and that is what I would be focused on. I don't think the slip tape impacts everyone or even a large percentage of users but have no idea; it might be more of an issue in warmer environments for adhesive. There are some threads here for more information. The new Grand Feel III redesign seems to engineer that problem away but that action is not on the MP11se.

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Marc345 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by newer player
I don't recall many sensor complaints on the MP11 or the MP11se.

Yes. But most people also don't care if velocities are sometimes off by 5 or 8 values. Most people IMHO are used to trash. They actually like it and call it the "soul" of a real acoustic (okay, I'm slightly exaggerating here). Like nobody really finds a pure sine wave that interesting. Well, be that as it may, I'm eager to find out how reliable the sensors on that thing are. The last Kawai instrument that I had in my hands, never even started to work. Let's hope this one will be the opposite.

Last edited by Marc345; 11/19/21 04:01 PM.

HW: MP11SE, Touche SE (+Arturia Keylab Ess. 88, Akai MPK249, in reserve: GEM Promega 3)
SW: Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft 275, Modern U, Noire, Absolute 5, Acousticsamples B5
Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GZgdFm3
Joined: Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by Marc345
But most people also don't care if velocities are sometimes off by 5 or 8 values.
Understood. There was a good thread at PianoTeq forums on those issues
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=6886

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Originally Posted by newer player
There was a good thread at PianoTeq forums on those issues https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=6886

Yes. And my current experiences with my old Promega 3 seem to hint at how those contacts get fixed in place to be a possible culprit. The thread you mentioned, the irregularities occur in groups. Maybe somewhat related to the distance between pairs of screws fixing the contact rubber/PCBs in place?

I wonder if in service manuals there is a comment about tightening the screws in a very specific way so that pressure exerted by them is as even as possible....?

I found this one: https://manualzz.com/doc/24167905/digital-piano-service-manual

There is something about key height and key stroke adjustment. But nothing about servicing the contact rubber.

On the other hand, during warranty, service technicians seem to never replace the contact rubber itself, they always (AFAIK) replace the entire contact rubber assembly incl. PCBs. Is that just more efficient, or are the sensor contacts on those boards wearing out?

Last edited by Marc345; 11/19/21 07:49 PM.

HW: MP11SE, Touche SE (+Arturia Keylab Ess. 88, Akai MPK249, in reserve: GEM Promega 3)
SW: Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft 275, Modern U, Noire, Absolute 5, Acousticsamples B5
Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GZgdFm3
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Originally Posted by Marc345
I'm eager to find out how reliable the sensors on that thing are.

It may happen that it will be impossible to blame the sensor for having variable values. The MIDI value is not the actual value of the sensor, but the time difference between activation of two sensors. Because the time interval is so small, any small deviation ends up resulting in a velocity difference of 5 or 10 in the MIDI messages. Replacement of the rubber pads is needed when the sensor starts not detecting events. Otherwise, sensors are usually very accurate.

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Originally Posted by vagfilm
Because the time interval is so small, any small deviation ends up resulting in a velocity difference of 5 or 10 in the MIDI messages.

The time interval is not small. Not in the domain of electronics, at least.

Last edited by Marc345; 11/20/21 04:36 AM.

HW: MP11SE, Touche SE (+Arturia Keylab Ess. 88, Akai MPK249, in reserve: GEM Promega 3)
SW: Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft 275, Modern U, Noire, Absolute 5, Acousticsamples B5
Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GZgdFm3

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