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Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Estonia doesn’t make a 182cm grand. Their closest size is 190cm. Not a Yamaha because they don’t make a 182cm piano. Can’t be a Schimmel for the same reason. Well I need to check Piano Buyer for more guesses.

Unless Keith says I’m not on the right track.

Last edited by j&j; 11/10/21 09:18 AM.

J & J
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Originally Posted by j&j
Estonia doesn’t make a 182cm grand. Their closest size is 190cm. Not a Yamaha because they don’t make a 182cm piano. Can’t be a Schimmel for the same reason. Well I need to check Piano Buyer for more guesses.

Unless Keith says I’m not on the right track.


Both pianos are a bit over 6' or 182 cm. So, in my mind, that is anywhere from 6'1 to 6'4" which I also think are sizes close enough to compare reasonably based on size alone.


Keith D Kerman
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This was definitely a fun challenge, and I would enjoy seeing more. But I think I speak for hundreds of people who have been paying attention to this (but not publicly offering a guess) -- please tell us the answer already!

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the more I listen to the pianos the much more I prefer piano A - it has great european classical sound character, not american warmth;
the sound of piano B is more even, typical japanese piano sound - yes I still believe it's japanese😄

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Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by j&j
Estonia doesn’t make a 182cm grand. Their closest size is 190cm. Not a Yamaha because they don’t make a 182cm piano. Can’t be a Schimmel for the same reason. Well I need to check Piano Buyer for more guesses.

Unless Keith says I’m not on the right track.


Both pianos are a bit over 6' or 182 cm. So, in my mind, that is anywhere from 6'1 to 6'4" which I also think are sizes close enough to compare reasonably based on size alone.

So anything between 182 to 191 cm?


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This was a lovely thread. There were quite interesting ideas about pianos. I also discovered Scriabin's Prelude, which I liked a lot and learned yesterday.
I also think its already time to reveal the pianos :))

As an update, I like both pianos. A has more European sound, the attack and continuing sound are different in dynamics, starts and than softens, which is very musical and great for phrasing. Also my ears are more accustomed to the sound like this - I guess most piano recording are close to A sound.

The piano B has lovelier timbre/sonority to it. However, its sound is sometimes too open for my liking, like a wovel A in singing. It's attack and continuation is one whole open sound.
Overall, I would have liked piano B's timbre with Piano A's soundform the most smile But both pianos are great.

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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by j&j
Estonia doesn’t make a 182cm grand. Their closest size is 190cm. Not a Yamaha because they don’t make a 182cm piano. Can’t be a Schimmel for the same reason. Well I need to check Piano Buyer for more guesses.

Unless Keith says I’m not on the right track.


Both pianos are a bit over 6' or 182 cm. So, in my mind, that is anywhere from 6'1 to 6'4" which I also think are sizes close enough to compare reasonably based on size alone.

So anything between 182 to 191 cm?

182 to 195 CM


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
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check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
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Keith D Kerman
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New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
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check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
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Originally Posted by Walkman
This was a lovely thread. There were quite interesting ideas about pianos. I also discovered Scriabin's Prelude, which I liked a lot and learned yesterday.
I also think its already time to reveal the pianos :))

As an update, I like both pianos. A has more European sound, the attack and continuing sound are different in dynamics, starts and than softens, which is very musical and great for phrasing. Also my ears are more accustomed to the sound like this - I guess most piano recording are close to A sound.

The piano B has lovelier timbre/sonority to it. However, its sound is sometimes too open for my liking, like a wovel A in singing. It's attack and continuation is one whole open sound.
Overall, I would have liked piano B's timbre with Piano A's soundform the most smile But both pianos are great.

Thank you for your observations which were quite insightful!


Keith D Kerman
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New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
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check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
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I was close on my initial guess
A - Baldwin
B - Steingraeber

should have stuck with that LOL

kind of scary that I mistook a Bosendorfer for a Baldwin! LOL
guess I should blame the recording, huh?


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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
I was close on my initial guess
A - Baldwin
B - Steingraeber

should have stuck with that LOL

kind of scary that I mistook a Bosendorfer for a Baldwin! LOL
guess I should blame the recording, huh?

You could blame the recording, but I am pretty sure that is not where the blame lies smile

However, that is one of the points of this thread. When you don't know the what the piano is and have to rely completely on sound, it changes perception. I actually think it sounds different when listening while looking at the piano and listening without being able to see the piano ( and artist )


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

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Keith - just as an FYI
I was JOKING about 'blaming the recording' hoping you realized that?

LOL
brdwyguy


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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
Keith - just as an FYI
I was JOKING about 'blaming the recording' hoping you realized that?

LOL
brdwyguy

Got it! I thought you were joking, but in this day and age when having a sense of humor can get you in big trouble, I am not always sure!


Keith D Kerman
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Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

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Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
When you don't know the what the piano is and have to rely completely on sound, it changes perception. I actually think it sounds different when listening while looking at the piano and listening without being able to see the piano ( and artist )

I also found that, when I listened to the original post, the ordering had an impact on my perception and feelings. The first piece was piano A, then Piano B. In that first listen, B didn't have the warmth of A to my ears, and I found it missing. The 2nd piece was B then A. A didn't have the same clear singing treble that B had, and that was what I noticed about A. Again - all just first impressions.

In other words, I found that the first recording set a reference point against which the 2nd was measured.

Interesting experience...Thanks Keith.

Last edited by Twindad; 11/10/21 04:48 PM. Reason: bad grammar

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I realised the ordering of the second piece compared to the
first.I decided to just focus on sections of the second piece. I knew I could never tell which brand the pianos were so I did not try.I realised they were probably from one of the best grade pianos.


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
I was close on my initial guess
A - Baldwin
B - Steingraeber

should have stuck with that LOL

kind of scary that I mistook a Bosendorfer for a Baldwin! LOL
guess I should blame the recording, huh?

You could blame the recording, but I am pretty sure that is not where the blame lies smile

However, that is one of the points of this thread. When you don't know the what the piano is and have to rely completely on sound, it changes perception. I actually think it sounds different when listening while looking at the piano and listening without being able to see the piano ( and artist )
I agree with this I do not know anything about the functioning of the brain and mind yet I do not think what we hear is in a totally separate drawer to what we see.We would have to consult a neural physiologist about perception.I was actually wondering if piano A was a Baldwin as well.As I explained I always get brands wrong.
I think seeing a piano, a pianists movements all converge with what we hear.Then of course we still have subjectivity..

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Originally Posted by Twindad
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
When you don't know the what the piano is and have to rely completely on sound, it changes perception. I actually think it sounds different when listening while looking at the piano and listening without being able to see the piano ( and artist )

I also found that, when I listened to the original post, the ordering had an impact on my perception and feelings. The first piece was piano A, then Piano B. In that first listen, B didn't have the warmth of A to my ears, and I found it missing. The 2nd piece was B then A. A didn't have the same clear singing treble that B had, and that was what I noticed about A. Again - all just first impressions.

In other words, I found that the first recording set a reference point against which the 2nd was measured.

Interesting experience...Thanks Keith.


It's interesting how the senses are impacted by one another to an extent that we don't realize (like eating when you can't smell).

I think that knowing the brands probably affects our expectations and perception a bit, as does the aesthetic styling of the piano (and in this case, the Bösendorfer looks much different).

So, we need two more trials: one in which the participants know the brands, but not which is which, and another in which they've also seen the pictures! thumb


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I prefer Piano B by far.



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