2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Advanced Piano Tricks
Advanced Piano Tricks
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
116 members (anotherscott, bluebilly, bimzdbear, 36251, almo82, Bach On Lock, benQF, Bebe1980, An Old Square, 23 invisible), 1,221 guests, and 481 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,633
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,633
Originally Posted by tre corda
Originally Posted by Cassia
Originally Posted by Maestro Lennie
Ignorant first try: A = Estonia, and B = Steingraeber.
That's my guess too. To my ears, piano A sounds a little strident in the treble, sometimes almost metallic. Piano B sounds rounder (not exactly a useful description, but I just got an impression of roundness and being surrounded by the sound, so...). I much prefer B.
"Strident,mettalic"? It shows the limitations of recordings!
If we heard these pianos in real life, we no doubt would have very different descriptions to what we have written here.I am always dismayed at how little I can judge a piano based on a recording.
Since we haven't heard the pianos live, no one knows if piano A is really "a little strident". It could be so we don't know if that person's perception shows any "limitation of the recording". And each person's take on that phrase can be different.

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 331
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 331
Given the hint, I'm going to venture a guess:

Piano B is a Shigeru Kawai SK-3 (6' 2").


Talão

Yamaha U3 and (incoming) Kawai MP11SE
Playing since July 2019
My piano journey
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 425
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
It will be at least a couple of days before the reveal because the guy who does the video for me is super busy! Hopefully that will allow more people to comment.

Others may not agree, but I think it would be fun to give us the two brands before the final reveal. Or maybe three brands, the two in the videos and one that isn't. Give people a chance to refine their guesses before pulling the curtain away.

Regardless, thanks for putting this together, this has been an enjoyable thread.


Yamaha C2X
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
K
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
Originally Posted by Cassia
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
It will be at least a couple of days before the reveal because the guy who does the video for me is super busy! Hopefully that will allow more people to comment.

Others may not agree, but I think it would be fun to give us the two brands before the final reveal. Or maybe three brands, the two in the videos and one that isn't. Give people a chance to refine their guesses before pulling the curtain away.

Regardless, thanks for putting this together, this has been an enjoyable thread.

Thanks Cassia, I am glad you are enjoying this thread and I like your ideas although I think, at least in this thread, I will stick with my plan ( as long as I actually get the videos that will allow the reveal done! )


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by Cassia
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
It will be at least a couple of days before the reveal because the guy who does the video for me is super busy! Hopefully that will allow more people to comment.

Others may not agree, but I think it would be fun to give us the two brands before the final reveal. Or maybe three brands, the two in the videos and one that isn't. Give people a chance to refine their guesses before pulling the curtain away.

Regardless, thanks for putting this together, this has been an enjoyable thread.

Thanks Cassia, I am glad you are enjoying this thread and I like your ideas although I think, at least in this thread, I will stick with my plan ( as long as I actually get the videos that will allow the reveal done! )


I'm content to let your plan play out. But clues would be kinda cool too. Age might be another interesting detail (i.e. are they new or rebuilds?). I'm assuming that they're rebuilds, since age was a detail listed as similar, but, of course, two new pianos would basically be of the same age too.


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
K
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by Cassia
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
It will be at least a couple of days before the reveal because the guy who does the video for me is super busy! Hopefully that will allow more people to comment.

Others may not agree, but I think it would be fun to give us the two brands before the final reveal. Or maybe three brands, the two in the videos and one that isn't. Give people a chance to refine their guesses before pulling the curtain away.

Regardless, thanks for putting this together, this has been an enjoyable thread.

Thanks Cassia, I am glad you are enjoying this thread and I like your ideas although I think, at least in this thread, I will stick with my plan ( as long as I actually get the videos that will allow the reveal done! )


I'm content to let your plan play out. But clues would be kinda cool too. Age might be another interesting detail (i.e. are they new or rebuilds?). I'm assuming that they're rebuilds, since age was a detail listed as similar, but, of course, two new pianos would basically be of the same age too.

Both pianos are in excellent new condition with nothing other than good quality basic prep.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Both pianos are in excellent new condition with nothing other than good quality basic prep.


Interesting...


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 47
I'm an absolute beginner, having only owned one acoustic piano, an upright Pearl River EU122. It was sooo bright on my tile floors! Since then I have sold it and MUCH prefer the sounds (and action) of Kawaii DPs (mid range).

All that said...

Piano A sounds almost "twangy" and a little "muddled" to me. I'm not sure if I am using the right terms here (listening with Sennheiser headphones).

Piano B sounds much more warm / rich / blended.

I suspect this is a trick question and I prefer Piano B.

So, I'm going to say Piano A is a Pearl River (originally I thought Steinway lol) and shockingly I'm going to go against the grain and say Piano B is a Yamaha.

Last edited by PianoGamer; 11/07/21 08:40 PM.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 448
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 448
I won't hazard a guess, because I don't trust my own ability to tell the true difference through recording, and especially I am not one of those who have seen a vast number of different makes, models, and vintage to make an informed conjecture.

But I would think that since Keith mentioned that these two pianos are new, we may look into what PianoCraft carries, new piano wise. That will narrow down the range.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,644
G
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,644
I have no idea what the pianos are, but much prefer 'B'.

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 34
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 34
For starters, this is a great game smile
I suspect that when the answers are revealed, this exercise will have shown that tuning and prep can make any piano shine.

That said (I'm sure this will prove laughable when the Great Reveal is done) Piano A has moments when it felt like the upper mid / treble had a harshness to it. And even though it was a few years ago, I remember not being thrilled with that register in the Estonia's that I tried, so I'm going to guess that.

Piano B has a really sweet tone, and somehow conveyed a sense that the pianist was really in control. I only once played a Steingraber, also a few years ago, and loved its tone and dynamic range. I didn't hear a Big American Bass in Piano B... so if I'm limiting my choices to models that Piano Craft sells new, I'll go with Steingraber.

How far off was I?

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
K
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
Originally Posted by NYSteve
... so if I'm limiting my choices to models that Piano Craft sells new....

Thanks for participating NYSteve. I will be making the reveal soon enough, but in the mean time, here is another hint.

I never said either or both pianos were pianos for which PianoCraft is the authorized new dealer. Maybe, maybe not, we shall see. Perhaps this is a distraction tactic. Perhaps it gives it all away.


[Linked Image]


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 34
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 34
Quote
I never said either or both pianos were pianos for which PianoCraft is the authorized new dealer.

Yeah, I noticed that. But with so many manufacturers out there, I needed to use some technique for limiting my choices.

I'll say a few other things, knowing full well that I could be totally off base with only two recordings to use as a guide:
a) I wouldn't be surprised if Piano A were a Samick or Hailun - which is not a dig. I owned and played a Samick-made piano for a long time - well prepped & tuned, they can be really good. I'm just indexing on that little bit of harshness that I heard in a couple of places in the treble.
b) I would be very surprised if Piano B were a Bluthner or a Mason & Hamlin. Bluthner's have a unique / distinctive tone that I don't think I heard, and I'd expect a really distinctive lower end from the M&H (although I'm not convinced that the pieces chosen would have really shown that off). Other pianos with clear-as-a-bell mid-trebles that wouldn't shock me if they were revealed to be Piano B are Forster's and Shigeru Kawais.

Oh and by the way, that is *not* a hint that you gave there. "Maybe, maybe not, we shall see" is literally the opposite of a hint...

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,633
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,633
If both pianos are one sold by PianoCraft there are only six possibilities so it's not hard to randomly guess correctly.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/09/21 04:06 PM.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 484
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 484
Hmmmmmmmm
that could mean PIANO B is a FAZIOLI? WOW

Piano A - Baldwin
Piano B - Fazioli

LOL - great game Keith


Emerson or Lester Upright (1920's)
Westbrook Spinet (1969)
Schomacker Model A (1912)
Steinway Model A (1912)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
K
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
Originally Posted by NYSteve
[quote]I

Oh and by the way, that is *not* a hint that you gave there. "Maybe, maybe not, we shall see" is literally the opposite of a hint...

lol....it is a bit of a hint because I think some people were not considering that it might be a piano not represented by PianoCraft and now they know that is a possibility. I'll agree, it aint much of a hint smile


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311
Upthread I assumed rebuilds, partly because of the similar age hint, and rebuilds are what tend to interest people.

I poked around the PianoCraft site a bit the other day to see what was in inventory--if that might help--and noted that the listed prices for Baldwin and Estonia are much closer than either is to the Steingraeber, but thought no one's going to compare those two, because rebuilds are what tend to interest people. Hence my wishful thinking comment about a future comparison between the two. Then Keith gave the hint about "new condition," and I read between the lines that it didn't necessarily mean brand spankin' new out of the crate, and could be something that he took in trade. It doesn't even mean "new" in age, but only that it's like new.


Can we assume that "nothing other than good quality basic prep" means that it's never been rebuilt, even somewhere else (i.e. not PianoCraft)?

My gut tells me it's a comparison between something PianoCraft sells new, and a "better" trade-in that has depreciated to about what the other new piano sells for, but my heart wants it to be Baldwin (A) and Estonia (B).


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
K
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,535
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Can we assume that "nothing other than good quality basic prep" means that it's never been rebuilt, even somewhere else (i.e. not PianoCraft)?

Yes. They are in new from the factory condition with good basic prep meaning no custom work, rebuilding, restoration, nothing unusual. All original factory parts never changed and set up differently from the factory.

Both pianos are considered in the same category and priced in the same category when new. So, it is not a Kia and a Ferrari. More like a Ferrari and a Lamborghini, or a Mercedes and an Audi. Or a Lexus and an Acura.

Remember, I said both pianos are generally highly regarded.

Both piano are a bit over 6' ( 182 cm ).


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,311
The plot thickens... blush


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 425
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 425
Hmm ... based on Keith's subsequent posts, I'm going to change my guess on piano B to Shigeru Kawai. Sticking with Estonia for piano A.


Yamaha C2X
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
High end speaker v.s. a real sound board
by NavH - 01/20/22 10:33 AM
VST? Get an external DAC.
by Bruce In Philly - 01/20/22 10:19 AM
Vertigo, Pianos, and Earbud Speakers
by ClsscLib - 01/20/22 10:07 AM
Welcome New Members!
by Piano World - 01/20/22 09:53 AM
Memorization: Corea vs. Zhdanov
by Emery Wang - 01/20/22 09:03 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!

Free Piano Lovers Newsletter is out now!
Piano News 2021 - 2022!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics211,259
Posts3,162,473
Members104,096
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5